143 ELD-X blew up on the shoulder?

[Harvey_NW]

I've been around here long enough to know that it's not wise to make uneducated bold claims, HOWEVEVER - this happened to be pretty well documented by a buddy of mine. I know "it just doesn't happen", but these photos and what he told me are extremely perplexing. @Formidilosus I'd love to hear your input or synopsis on the matter.

Shot situation - mature blacktail buck, broadside shot 140 yards, 6.5 Creedmoor, factory Precision Hunter 143 ELD-X. Knocked the buck down, buck got up at 30 yards and he shot him in the back of the head. He says absolutely no vegetation or anything the bullet could have contacted to start initiating expansion prior to impact, clear line of sight and the impact was at POA. He found the jacket/core fragments in the wound cavity on the shoulder, from his inspection nothing notably penetrated through the rib meat and into the cavity.

The bullet obviously hit something at adequate velocity to cause it to upset, but if it were in between him and the target it wasn't enough to cause it to deviate off course. What say you?

 

[EcoastDG]

Had the same thing happen on a Mule deer. Shoulder shot same round, bullet and same result . 2nd shot through the diaphragm. Third shot in the neck put him down for good. I have shot other deer with 7mm eldx with no issues.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

How is it well documented if all we have is a photo of the deer hanging a day or more after the kill?

Did he not get photos of the vitals showing zero damage?

 

[Harvey_NW]

How is it well documented if all we have is a photo of the deer hanging a day or more after the kill?

He's not on here so he doesn't understand the level of documentation needed to appease the slide, but I meant well documented as in actually having pictures showing it, not just a claim.

Did he not get photos of the vitals showing zero damage?

No he did not. But how do the vitals get damaged if nothing makes it into the cavity?

 

[Formidilosus]

I've been around here long enough to know that it's not wise to make uneducated bold claims, HOWEVEVER - this happened to be pretty well documented by a buddy of mine. I know "it just doesn't happen", but these photos and what he told me are extremely perplexing. @Formidilosus I'd love to hear your input or synopsis on the matter.

Shot situation - mature blacktail buck, broadside shot 140 yards, 6.5 Creedmoor, factory Precision Hunter 143 ELD-X. Knocked the buck down, buck got up at 30 yards and he shot him in the back of the head. He says absolutely no vegetation or anything the bullet could have contacted to start initiating expansion prior to impact, clear line of sight and the impact was at POA. He found the jacket/core fragments in the wound cavity on the shoulder, from his inspection nothing notably penetrated through the rib meat and into the cavity.

The bullet obviously hit something at adequate velocity to cause it to upset, but if it were in between him and the target it wasn't enough to cause it to deviate off course. What say you?

View attachment 781822
View attachment 781824
View attachment 781823

What are these?-




The blue are clearly holes with daylight, and the yellow- at least two are clearly penetrations.

 

[gbflyer]

I say that what your friend experienced is one of those things that happen with projectiles that defy logic and I don’t discount his experience. I’ve seen a cow elk killed at 30 yards with a .270 shooting a 130gr Barnes TTSX that opened beautifully and got caught by the spine. By all accounts that bullet should still be flying. I also know a big man who was shot in the pelvis with a 30-06 at a range that should have cut him in half. The bullet never expanded and drilled a hole into the bone. He fully recovered.

 

[sickles107]

broadside shot

Per forms analysis and wound patter, looks to be a bit more so hard quarter to?

 

[Harvey_NW]

I sent him the link and he's following along and answering questions, he's also not new to killing and processing animals.

Did he not get photos of the vitals showing zero damage?

He said zero tissue damage to lungs or vitals, the lung from the impact side looked bruised but there were no holes or lacerations.

What are these?-

He said chunks of fat, definitely no holes allowing light through.




I'm not trying to be objective, we're just trying to understand and since this is coming from a friend I can trust the answers and information.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Per forms analysis and wound patter, looks to be a bit more so hard quarter to?

What wound patter? He said there were no visible holes, lacerations, jacket or lead fragments, or any other indications of anything penetrating through a rib or meat, and into the cavity.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

What wound patter? He said there were no visible holes, lacerations, jacket or lead fragments, or any other indications of anything penetrating through a rib or meat, and into the cavity.

Unfortunately he didn't document that

 

[Harvey_NW]

Unfortunately he didn't document that

Are the pictures not uploading?

 

[waspocrew]

That’s pretty wild. Can’t explain it other than “shit happens” sometimes. Glad he could finish off the buck.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

Are the pictures not uploading?

Apparently not. Did he remove the front shoulder off the on-side impact and take pics of that? Did he take the off side front leg off and take pics of that? I don't see pics of anything other than the impact side of the front leg and a body cavity picture.

Bullets can and will do strange things. Where was the bullet recovered from? Are there pictures of this?

 

[Harvey_NW]

I don't see pics of anything other than the impact side of the front leg and a body cavity picture.

Right, the pictures of the blacktail cavity with no holes in it. You're a WKR, I'm sure you know as well as I do what the inside of the cavity should look like from that shot placement, with that bullet, at that yardage. If anyone wants to argue that 2 or 3 tiny speculative pieces of jacket went through rib meat and nothing went wrong in this situation, I'd have to disagree and digress.

Bullets can and will do strange things. Where was the bullet recovered from? Are there pictures of this?

As stated in OP, the jacket and core fragments in the picture were recovered from the wound on the shoulder.

 

[Taudisio]

I don’t believe it. I have shot many animals at closer and farther, hitting softer and harder parts of animals with the same factory stuff. My average penetration is around 16” NOT including the many pass throughs. If I saw it in person, it would be different.

Being on the internet, I don’t trust the OP’s post. The bullet looks the same as ones I have found, in the offside hide, when I have found them. If I saw similar or plausible results in person, I wouldn’t question the post. I’ve never seen anything close to only 3”-4” (he claims) of penetration with the CM and 143’s.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

Right, the pictures of the blacktail cavity with no holes in it. You're a WKR, I'm sure you know as well as I do what the inside of the cavity should look like from that shot placement, with that bullet, at that yardage. If anyone wants to argue that 2 or 3 tiny speculative pieces of jacket went through rib meat and nothing went wrong in this situation, I'd have to disagree and digress.


As stated in OP, the jacket and core fragments in the picture were recovered from the wound on the shoulder.

"I'm sure you should know"....well I only know what a 6.5 creedmoor with match bullets should do to an elk. Not a mighty blacktail deer mind you. Bullets do weird things sometimes, perhaps he should buy a lotto ticket and use his winnings to buy a 338win mag.

 

[HuntHarder]

Why all the doubters? Pretty clear pictures to document what he is saying. I would say some are very Naive to think that a bullet is not able to be defective. There have been NUMEROUS pictures, posts and experiences with Bergers that either, opened violently with little penetration or some ( happened to me) that never opened at all.

Hard to explain OP. I have used the ELD-X on quite a few kills with no negative results on my end.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I sent him the link and he's following along and answering questions, he's also not new to killing and processing animals.


He said zero tissue damage to lungs or vitals, the lung from the impact side looked bruised but there were no holes or lacerations.


He said chunks of fat, definitely no holes allowing light through.

View attachment 781834
View attachment 781833

I'm not trying to be objective, we're just trying to understand and since this is coming from a friend I can trust the answers and information.

Appreciate him answering questions.

The second picture didn't render for me when I first replied earlier sorry, is that not all bloodshot lung chunks scattered throughout the broad side and off side ribs? So the white fat chunks and blood shot chunks scattered throughout the entrance side and offside rib cage are from what? If nothing penetrated the lungs or heart at all how did those get there? Maybe a Sawzall or chain saw to process the deer?

I'm not denying what your friend experienced at all, I've heard stories of ELDX failures here on Rokslide, they just never have any legitimate or "telling" post mortem photos unfortunately in what I've seen.

 

[Hnthrdr]

With enough of a sample size there is likely to be a dud out there, not sure if it would have had a better outcome with a 300 win or 338 if the bullet was defective it was defective, killed several animals with the 143 in 6.5 and the carnage was almost excessive. Glad he could make a follow up shot, I guess it’s good to have something you can stay in the scope on and keep shooting until you are certain?

 

[bergie]

"I've never seen that so it can't be true" are always such wild statements.