10 shot group

[Idaho Brad]

Does everyone settle for 3 or 5 shot groups?
If you shoot 3 and it’s 1/4” and 5 is 1” and 10 is 2” group, would you still call it a 1/4” gun? When will it be a 2 shot group is the norm? Who decided on 3 shots being the norm? The manufacturers seeing the groups open at 5 so they push for 3 shot groups for marketing? I bet there isn’t many guns that can hold a 1/4” on a 10 shot group. Not many would even be sub-moa


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[Hondo64d]

I have no faith in 3 shot groups unless I shoot several of them and they all impact at the same POI. Three shots just isn’t a big enough sample size to be a good predictor of where the next shot is going. For those that don’t believe me, take your “1/2 MOA all day long” hunting rifle and shoot one of those tiny three shot groups. Let the barrel cool and shoot another at the same POA, let the barrel cool again and shoot another at the same POA. Let the barrel cool and send the last one at the same POA, for a total of ten shots. How big is your group now?

John

 

[N2TRKYS]

I don’t get 10 shots at game animals, so I don’t care about 10 shot groups.

 

[Rob5589]

There's a vast difference between a 1/4 moa gun and a 1/4 moa shooter. Personally 5 shots gets me the info I'm looking for.

 

[Spindrift]

There's a vast difference between a 1/4 moa gun and a 1/4 moa shooter. Personally 5 shots gets me the info I'm looking for.

Bingo.


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[Lawnboi]

There's a vast difference between a 1/4 moa gun and a 1/4 moa shooter. Personally 5 shots gets me the info I'm looking for.

To add on. Big difference between 1/4 minute precision and 1/4 minute accuracy. Often misused, the one most often looked past matters much more for hunting.

I zero my rifles off Kraft drills now. So mark me down as 12 rounds.

The less precise the shooter/rifle, the more you need to fire to determine your zero and capability.

 

[DanielMaple]

Does everyone settle for 3 or 5 shot groups?
If you shoot 3 and it’s 1/4” and 5 is 1” and 10 is 2” group, would you still call it a 1/4” gun? When will it be a 2 shot group is the norm? Who decided on 3 shots being the norm? The manufacturers seeing the groups open at 5 so they push for 3 shot groups for marketing? I bet there isn’t many guns that can hold a 1/4” on a 10 shot group. Not many would even be sub-moa


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I feel pretty good with a 5 shot, but I’m not confident until it can shoot similar groups with 10 shots.
Here’s a recent 12 shot group, the first 3 measured .116 12 shots ended up quite a bit larger.

 

[BLJ]

@TK-421. Interested in what your referencing in your post. Thanks.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I heard me on one of them pod casts the other day one them there companies did some testing.

And in reference to magnum calibers if you are shooting "quickly" the 5th shot had as much throat erosion as the previous 4 combined.

Idk just saying.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Also while I'm always hoping for a .5, 5 shot group.
I'm fine as long as it is a nice round even centered up group.

I have a rifle that throws flyers and I always want to throw it off a cliff, idk what to call the center of the group for a zero, but it is Sentimental or it would already be rebarreled.

 

[5MilesBack]

I guess it depends on what your purpose is. In a perfect world, I'd want to do one cold bore shot a day for however long you wanted to go. Then see what that group is. Depending on your purpose, only one shot could be all that matters.

It's different for a bow (no barrel heating up or ammo inconsistencies), but I'll shoot one BH arrow from 60 yards randomly every day leading up to hunting season. That tells me all I need to know.......that when I do my job, the bow and arrow does its job. Same for my guns. Then I don't need to know what shot 10 is actually doing in the same session.

I don't shoot my guns too often, but when I do I generally take a few of them to the range and shoot 2-3 shots from each of them. I'm not sure that I've ever had any of them not still be on target.

 

[robtattoo]

If I was 90% of people, I'd use the blue group (shots 1-5) & call it a .5moa gun ("iF i Do mY pArT")

If I was a manufacturer, I'd use the yellow group (shots 6-8) & call it a .2moa with 3 rounds of quality ammunition gun.

The reality is that as a carefully shot, 10 round group, not ignoring the flyers because statistically, they don't actually happen.... It's a 2moa rifle & I'd estimate that it's no more or less accurate than 99% of quality rifles out there.

 

[BLJ]

@TK-421. My question was in reference to the table. I wasn’t very clear. Appreciate the other links , though.

 

[BLJ]

Exactly. Appreciate it. I just need to buy the AB books and be done with it.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Do what works for you (generic) and don’t worry about others’ preferences.

I prefer 3-shot groups (both cold bore and also back-to-back-to-back) as that is far closer to hunting reality than groups of 10+ shots. Somewhere along the way it becomes less of what the rifle/ammo is doing and more of what I’m doing with those larger quantities shot groups.

 

[Formidilosus]

Do what works for you (generic) and don’t worry about others’ preferences.

I prefer 3-shot groups (both cold bore and also back-to-back-to-back) as that is far closer to hunting reality than groups of 10+ shots. Somewhere along the way it becomes less of what the rifle/ammo is doing and more of what I’m doing with those larger quantities shot groups.

So you can shoot three shots without having a seizure, but not four or five? If you can shoot three without slinching, you can shoot a hundred without flinching.


It’s isn’t about “hunting reality”. Guns don’t shoot to a hole- they shoot in a cone. Place the rifle in a machine and fire it with no human error or interference, and rounds will randomly land inside the rifles cone until it stabilizes. Three shots doesn’t tell one anything good about the cone.

 

[Formidilosus]

For example, you shoot a 1/2 MOA 5-shot group. Your 20-shot group “should” be about 0.72 MOA (1/2 x 1.45 = 0.72). Even though those factors are theoretical, I find that they are quite accurate in real life.

I don’t. Nor anyone I know that has tried it, has found it matching. Unless you take the worst 5 round group (or 3, or ten) and then use the table.

A random 5 shot half inch group, does not “math out” to a .72 MOA 20 round group.

 

[Formidilosus]

So, you can shoot a 1/2 MOA 5-shot group without having a seizure, but you can’t string together a 3/4 MOA 20-shot group?

Out of a Wiseman in a tunnel, it doesn’t work that way.

For a rifle that mechanically consistently shoots 20 shot groups of 3/4 MOA, the worst 5 round group might be .5 MOA. But a random 5 shot group from the vast majority of rifles, yeah no.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

So you can shoot three shots without having a seizure, but not four or five? If you can shoot three without slinching, you can shoot a hundred without flinching.


It’s isn’t about “hunting reality”. Guns don’t shoot to a hole- they shoot in a cone. Place the rifle in a machine and fire it with no human error or interference, and rounds will randomly land inside the rifles cone until it stabilizes. Three shots doesn’t tell one anything good about the cone.

Look at the totality over a period of time rather than a single point in time.

I can shoot many 3-shot groups over a period of time (not same range session) and get a good understanding of what the rifle will do.

Like I initially said, folks should do what works for them. Yes, there’s room for improvement.

 

[TxxAgg]

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