10 shot group

[Formidilosus]

What is the elapsed time between shots on the larger groups i.e. 12 shots and above? I wonder how much a heated barrel plays into the group expansion.

Little to none in properly stress relived barrels. The “little” comes from potential mirage off the barrel effecting aiming, not the barrel itself being hot causing issues.

 

[DanielMaple]

Nobody likes a show off!

Nobody likes a show off!

 

[49ereric]

Does everyone settle for 3 or 5 shot groups?
If you shoot 3 and it’s 1/4” and 5 is 1” and 10 is 2” group, would you still call it a 1/4” gun? When will it be a 2 shot group is the norm? Who decided on 3 shots being the norm? The manufacturers seeing the groups open at 5 so they push for 3 shot groups for marketing? I bet there isn’t many guns that can hold a 1/4” on a 10 shot group. Not many would even be sub-moa


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Just shoot 1 round from a cold dirty barrel after sight in. That is the one shot that counts.

 

[Mike Islander]

Maybe #Formidilosus can explain what happened, other than I shot poorly.

First shots with the new Tikka T3x .223. Barrel cut to 18" and threaded, but no device installed yet. Black Hills 5.56 77gn TMK. Also first time shooting SWFA 3-9x42 SS HD scope. Normally shoot SWFA 6x42.

Upper right shot was my first shot, aiming at a red square 8 inches below the group, so ignore it. Blue tape was POA.

For some reason I'm shifting POI after each reload of the magazine. Tried to be consistent shooting with front/rear bag. Feels fantastic to touch 4 shots from a mag, only to be frustrated by the "new" POI on the next mag.

In any case, it's a good starting point for me. I'll work on it. If I can get a more consistent cheek weld, etc., I think we can do sub-MOA fairly easily.

Oh, shot at a dew point of 81 degrees. If that doesn't seem like a thing, look up dew point.

Here in the beautiful Lowcountry of South Carolina we just call it "summer":

Excessive heat warning: Rare 80-degree dew points again this weekend?

Another tropical air mass blows into Minnesota this weekend. That brings the potential for 80-degree dew points and thunderstorms.

www.mprnews.org

 

[MallardSX2]

And here all along I thought I was a closet nerd.

Sone of you guys never had a closet! Lol

 

[mattg45]

Never focused on groupings past 5.

 

[Vern400]

Does everyone settle for 3 or 5 shot groups?
If you shoot 3 and it’s 1/4” and 5 is 1” and 10 is 2” group, would you still call it a 1/4” gun? When will it be a 2 shot group is the norm? Who decided on 3 shots being the norm? The manufacturers seeing the groups open at 5 so they push for 3 shot groups for marketing? I bet there isn’t many guns that can hold a 1/4” on a 10 shot group. Not many would even be sub-moa


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NO. Groups totalling 30 shots give about 90% confidence that the result is repeatable.
Velocity ES was 24 fps.
Shot 4 consecutive 3 shot groups 0.83 max
(full page pic).
There are NO flyers.
Pic 2: next session
Pic 3: year later with same batch of 500 loaded
Pic 4: 15 years later with same batch of ammo. After about 4000 rounds and countless hog hunting trips to saltwater islands she's getting tired. Probably pitted. It's a B- code M700 in 308.

She was a one minute gun for many years. I checked it yearly. But not any more. Still I've dragged 10,000 pounds of whitetails out with this gun on my back. Still counting.
Not bad for a $323 rifle from the 80s.

It's a 1.5 moa gun now.

 

[Vern400]

Does everyone settle for 3 or 5 shot groups?
If you shoot 3 and it’s 1/4” and 5 is 1” and 10 is 2” group, would you still call it a 1/4” gun? When will it be a 2 shot group is the norm? Who decided on 3 shots being the norm? The manufacturers seeing the groups open at 5 so they push for 3 shot groups for marketing? I bet there isn’t many guns that can hold a 1/4” on a 10 shot group. Not many would even be sub-moa


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This may be the most important picture you can ever look at, if the first shot is the only one that counts.

The shots are numbered. My rifle shoots this exact pattern every time I clean it. If I have to go to the field, and cannot pop off to fouler rounds I know my gun will consistently shoot high and right one minute. Shot number three is the final one that have signs of being a little high. Shots 4 and onward drop into a normal pattern.

It's kind of crazy but shooters choice takes two shots to clear out, but sweets 7.62 ammonia based cleaner takes 3 or 4.

You're looking at a 200 yard zero, on a 100 yd paper Target. A piece of Saran wrap with a rubber band over the muzzle doesn't change my poi at all. My testing shows that a few drops of water down the barrel makes the first shot of total crap shoot.

Is a three shot group enough? Absolutely not.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

 

[JGRaider]

I'm primarily a hunter, but do shoot some LR stuff, just plinking around and enjoying the challenge. I've been hunting for 51 years, and IMO 10 shot groups are a complete waste of time. I'd rather shoot one cold bore shot at the same target for 10 consecutive days.

 

[Jimbee]

I'm primarily a hunter, but do shoot some LR stuff, just plinking around and enjoying the challenge. I've been hunting for 51 years, and IMO 10 shot groups are a complete waste of time. I'd rather shoot one cold bore shot at the same target for 10 consecutive days.

Have you shot 1 cold bore shot at the same target 10 times? I'd be interested in pictures if you have any.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I'm primarily a hunter, but do shoot some LR stuff, just plinking around and enjoying the challenge. I've been hunting for 51 years, and IMO 10 shot groups are a complete waste of time. I'd rather shoot one cold bore shot at the same target for 10 consecutive days.

It's the number as a total that's important, not a string. That would be the best way to do it for personal confidence. But it's not feasible or efficient for most people, and apples to apples the groups will both be within the rifles cone, so you get the same results either way.

 

[JGRaider]

Yes I have, but don't have pics. I usually do this exercise with a couple of 5 shot groups after settling on a load. I've never had a proven load that I worked up with 3 shot groups, followed by a couple of 5 shot groups at 200-300 yds, all of the sudden launch a random shot out in oblivion somewhere, which is why I don't waste time with 10 shot strings as some suggest.

 

[TaperPin]

A two shot group or 200 shot group does not change how well the gun shoots. It is what it is. If you need 10 shot groups to know it’s a 2 MOA dog or average 1-1/4 MOA factory gun, then so be it, but most people know with the first three shots after a few foulers.

A half MOA gun is a joy to own - two shots is all you need to be within 1/4 MOA of the true center, and three gets you to about 1/8 MOA.

 

[Weldor]

Here's mine. 6.5 prc Fierce fury suppressed. That was sighting in Leupold VX5. Not on the rifle anymore.

 

[YungHoneydew]

Gah damn this thread is spicy!

 

[Axlrod]

A two shot group or 200 shot group does not change how well the gun shoots. It is what it is. If you need 10 shot groups to know it’s a 2 MOA dog or average 1-1/4 MOA factory gun, then so be it, but most people know with the first three shots after a few foulers.

A half MOA gun is a joy to own - two shots is all you need to be within 1/4 MOA of the true center, and three gets you to about 1/8 MOA.

The problem is a half moa gun is very much the exception.

At last weeks 1000 yard championship match at deep creek MT. 37 competitors in heavy gun fired 2 -10 shot groups each, so 74 different 10 shot groups. There were 2 that hit right at .5 moa, all others were larger. These are pure target guns built and tuned solely for 1000 yard group and score shooting. They are heavy and use cartridges based on the 6mm BR, recoil is very minimal. The shooters competing there are some of the best there are at that discipline.
Most rifles are not half moa.

 

[RyanT26]

The problem is a half moa gun is very much the exception.

At last weeks 1000 yard championship match at deep creek MT. 37 competitors in heavy gun fired 2 -10 shot groups each, so 74 different 10 shot groups. There were 2 that hit right at .5 moa, all others were larger. These are pure target guns built and tuned solely for 1000 yard group and score shooting. They are heavy and use cartridges based on the 6mm BR, recoil is very minimal. The shooters competing there are some of the best there are at that discipline.
Most rifles are not half moa.

Well……… they didn’t do their part.

 

[Gorp2007]

Well……… they didn’t do their part.

They were all half MOA if your ignore the flyers.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

they're all 0 moa if you do 1 shot "groups" like some of the dissenters that typically chime in on these multi-shot group threads.