Rytek Kutas (who wrote the book on sausage making) always adds water to the "grind" unless you are going for a dry salami recipe (which I haven't tried yet).
One hard lesson we learned last year (well... I read the book but my buddy wasn't convinced-- until afterward doing it "his" way)... is...
I LOVE the 95g Fusion in my 243 on deer around here (Kansas)... got a pile of them from RMR a few years back. Liked them so much I went to the 115g (Gold Dot) in my 6.8 SPC for pigs (super killing bullets!) and my 140g (Gold Dot) in my 260ai- great acccurate bullet (and kinda cheap- like me) ;)...
Uh... my wife doesn't cook... and she doesn't like some of what I hunt and cook (goose, duck, squirrel, and a few other critters). So I just eat those when she's out for the evening, or when we have larger parties where some folks dig the "alternative" menu (and she gets grilled chicken breast)...
Yet, since hunting forums began, there are thousands of accounts of animals (hit even in the heart) that ran hard and far. I AGREE, it's a phenomenon... but I have to agree it happens (personally not to me- and I AM thankful in that respect).
Bushnell TOP line are 100% good to go... but bring your American Express card as they are all over the $1k budget. BUT lately... Bushnell (Vista) has NOTHING in the middle. Sad, as they bought Nikon and Weaver and basically shut the great $300 - $600 lines down. Better Pro-Staffs, all...
Uh… check the thread title? Do you NOT believe men killed elk at 600 yards before scopes dialed??? (*and yes, those men mostly came from ranches).
Those guys on “my side of the fence” are the 223 guys shooting elk at 450 with a 223. It can be done. …boom…
To a degree, I agree. But my pellet gun (super accurate 1970 Benjamin) has less kick than a 223 and is DEFINITELY more accurate at 30 yards. But... we have to "add more" to get there and there are more factors than bullet "killability" (not a word I know) when (if) we GET there and we have to...
I first thank and appreciate today's posts (and likes) as they represent the MANY legitimate and differing viewpoints on this subject.
I told a story last night: Yes... Pappy DID make that 1100 yard kill on that deer in 1969 or so-- and I admit I was too young to really know why my dad was so...
I originally posted to a father here with lots of kids and a 223. I put forth my opinion that I would HOLD a young, new shooter to a shorter limit if he did that without the extra expense of time and a "better" scope to LEARN how to make the longer shot the 223 guys have done- without question...
I know your VERY concerned with energy here, I already read the 223 post. And if you can get your 223 to elk range where some of us do, hit the target, and kill it... name your energy and caliber ;)
But I AM saying you ARE lobbing a 223 at that range. I KNOW THAT IS hard to hit target doing it that way (again... for the average hunter, but with a "dailer" AND experience- I'm agreeing it can be done).
You and I both know the "energy" suggested by bullet makers, etc. But I'm more about...
And... as a kid I witnessed Pappy Yoste kill a deer at 1100 yards (while with my dad) off the hood of his truck with a 7mm WM (no dailing). THAT man grew up on (and never left) the ranch he knew his ranges at... he taught my dad how to load in the 60s.
Enough to get there first!
Again... if you want to "lob" your bullets at your elk with your 223, and have the ability and gear to do it... go right ahead! If you can make that hit and dope the wind... good for you!
I have never said these calibers (any of them) can't kill, I'm saying they...
When I shot my first 600 yard elk range finders weren't around much ;) But the 7mm RM had the energy so when I hit the elk... if died. Again... I didn't have my 223 that day ;)
Your not reading what I wrote... all but vague. The "guts" are spilled... I've explained why I'd not use a 223 to shoot an elk- especially out past 450 (the yardage some of the 223 guys say they are killing elk- so using what they said here BTW:).
Like I said, IF you want to shoot your 223 at...