zenbivy or argali 20 bag

[kwackkillncrew]

I am going to replace my old 20 degree synthetic bag thats been farted in one to many times. i seem to move a bit and like space in the bag. My cold weather bag is a WM kodiak and really like that bag. It seems like most people who use the zen system seem to like it until it get real cold and at that point i would be using my kodiak bag. Mostly going to use the new bag or zen bag until it gets around 20 degrees. From what i have read the argali is pretty spacious, but the zen bivy quilt/sheet also looks pretty roomy and versitle. There is only about a 4 oz difference between the bag and the quilt/sheet set up with the quilt/sheet being the heavier of the 2. Anybody have any first hand experience using both of these sleeping setups?

 

[atmat]

I can’t speak to the Argali. But I use the Zenbivy 10 degree with Exped U7 down below zero with no issues. It’s by far the comfiest sleep system I’ve used.

 

[Formidilosus]

I am going to replace my old 20 degree synthetic bag thats been farted in one to many times. i seem to move a bit and like space in the bag. My cold weather bag is a WM kodiak and really like that bag. It seems like most people who use the zen system seem to like it until it get real cold and at that point i would be using my kodiak bag. Mostly going to use the new bag or zen bag until it gets around 20 degrees. From what i have read the argali is pretty spacious, but the zen bivy quilt/sheet also looks pretty roomy and versitle. There is only about a 4 oz difference between the bag and the quilt/sheet set up with the quilt/sheet being the heavier of the 2. Anybody have any first hand experience using both of these sleeping setups?

There is nothing like the Zen Bivy. Bluntly it makes sleeping bags obsolete.

 

[elkhunter505]

@Formidilosus do you make a custom zenbivy using some type of stick on loops like zpacks loops? Or have you used the actual zenbivy bag? I love my quilt from El Coyote and was thinking about modifying it to fit the zenbivy system which would also make the purchase cheaper.

 

[Speaks]

I have and use 3 different set ups.

FF 10 degree bag
FF 20 degree quilt
Zen Bivy 25 degree lite quilt with a 10 degree sheet.

I like zen bivy though its is quite heavy for what it is. This may or may not matter to you at all. Their new UL Quilt largely solves for this though honestly and I am sure is a good set up. If weight matters I like the FF Flickr quilt (it can actually zip up as well) If I am not sweating half a lb I take the zen bivy.

It is overall very comfortable to sleep in.

As a reference if I use the FF 20 or ZB 10 (similar warmth) both with the same ZB sheet its a 12 oz difference. The new UL one takes that difference down to 4oz. If you swap in the UL sheet as well it takes the difference down to 1 oz.

I suppose if ZB had that option out when I made my purchase I could see the ZB UL being the winner.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus do you make a custom zenbivy using some type of stick on loops like zpacks loops? Or have you used the actual zenbivy bag? I love my quilt from El Coyote and was thinking about modifying it to fit the zenbivy system which would also make the purchase cheaper.

Zen Bivy.

 

[Formidilosus]

As a reference if I use the FF 20 or ZB 10 (similar warmth)

How do you figure that?

 

[Speaks]

How do you figure that?

The zen bivy model name is the limit rating not the comfort rating, FF uses the comfort rating. Below from the zen bivy site showing the 10 degree bed is a comfort rating of 20 degrees.



I dont think FF actually uses the standard EN rating system though are generally understood to be in line with what is usually labeled as a comfort rating.

My subjective experience is that my 20 degree flickr is noticeably warmer than my 25 degree zen bivy which generally seems in line with the guidance both companies publish. Though I have not tried to test this in a particularly scientific way.

I tend to find I am personally comfortable close to the limit rating and can easily supplement with layers so I tend to assume I can quite easily go to the zen bivys rating and 10 degrees below the FF rating.

 

[Formidilosus]

The zen bivy model name is the limit rating not the comfort rating, FF uses the comfort rating. Below from the zen bivy site showing the 10 degree bed is a comfort rating of 20 degrees.

View attachment 964779

I dont think FF actually uses the standard EN rating system though are generally understood to be in line with what is usually labeled as a comfort rating.

My subjective experience is that my 20 degree flickr is noticeably warmer than my 25 degree zen bivy which generally seems in line with the guidance both companies publish. Though I have not tried to test this in a particularly scientific way.

I tend to find I am personally comfortable close to the limit rating and can easily supplement with layers so I tend to assume I can quite easily go to the zen bivys rating and 10 degrees below the FF rating.

I have used the 10° F Zen Bivy since the first day you could order one. Hundreds of nights on 3 different ones down to -27° F. At least 20% of those nights have been at, or below 0° F. 15-20 people I know that have them and use them when I’ve been camping with them.

I have said from the beginning that the 10° F version is not a “10° F” bag. It’s loft and warmth beats every down 0° F bag I have used beside it except Western Mountaineering- and they are about the same. At 10° F I up most of them time having sweated in the bag. 20° F and the quilt/sheet has to be vented slightly to not sweat.


I say that to say- it doesn’t matter how they rate it, the 10° F is a legit 0° F bag from every person I know that has used it in true cold weather. Ryan Avery had to give his to his wife because he was burning up and soaking the bag from sweat in cold weather. A FF 20° quilt isn’t remotely the same insulation or warmth as the ZB 10° system.

 

[Speaks]

I have used the 10° F Zen Bivy since the first day you could order one. Hundreds of nights on 3 different ones down to -27° F. At least 20% of those nights have been at, or below 0° F. 15-20 people I know that have them and use them when I’ve been camping with them.

I have said from the beginning that the 10° F version is not a “10° F” bag. It’s loft and warmth beats every down 0° F bag I have used beside it except Western Mountaineering- and they are about the same. At 10° F I up most of them time having sweated in the bag. 20° F and the quilt/sheet has to be vented slightly to not sweat.


I say that to say- it doesn’t matter how they rate it, the 10° F is a legit 0° F bag from every person I know that has used it in true cold weather. Ryan Avery had to give his to his wife because he was burning up and soaking the bag from sweat in cold weather. A FF 20° quilt isn’t remotely the same insulation or warmth as the ZB 10° system.

Cool, thats good to know. I have only used the 25 degree one and it performed about how I would expect a bag with that rating to perform. I extrapolated that to assume that the 10 degree bag would perform about how I would expect it to perform but it sounds like it is in fact much better.

It competing with zero degree bags brings the weight right in line.

I may have to order one now and play around with it. I do like my 25, its just a bit heavier than comparable Flickr series.