Zeiss durability vs NF, Trijicon?

[gberb18]

I have an opportunity to purchase a new Zeiss conquest v4 or v6 scope at a 50% discount. I've also been very interested in the Nightforce SHV and Trijicon scopes for their reputation of always holding zero. I hunt deer and elk almost exclusively by backpacking and horseback. I need a scope that can take a beating and dials reliably, while making shots on game at as far as 700 yards. It sounds like Nightforce has that very reputation with Trijicon being great as well. Would I regret saving 50% on a Zeiss v6 3x18x50 ($2150 retail) if purchased over a Nightforce SHV or a Trijicon? Is the zeiss scope going to be as durable as the other two? Fyi the rifle is a tikka 270.
Thanks for any input.

 

[grfox92]

I have no personal experience with Zeiss scopes, but they have a terrible reputation for holding zero and are never recommended by anyone on Rokslide.

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[LaHunter]

I would not risk a hunt that I had significant $$ and / or time invested with one of those Zeiss scopes, regardless of the scope price.

 

[JohnJohnson]

The Zeiss S3 6-36x56 seems to be doing alright in its testing, once he put it in non-Zeiss brand rings. Having said that, the fact that you're concerned enough to ask at all tells me you should get something that won't leave you doubting its durability.

 

[Randy11]

I wasn't able to find much with the search function. Have quite a few members here had the V4/V6 shit the bed on them?

 

[Str8shooter]

Zeiss V4 on 4th season of use. Tracks out to 900 yds and RTZ perfectly. Have not been gentle with it. Elk/barbary/mule deer hunts in CO/NM from -15 to 97 degrees. That being said, NF is widely esteemed for their durability.

 

[IDHUNTER]

If reliability/durability is your #1 priority you should probably stick with NF or Trijicon. You can get an SHV for about the same cost as what 50% off the Zeiss would be.

 

[Nomosendero]

Ah but several did on another thread

Leupold VX5 HD or Zeiss Conquest V4?

Looking to upgrade, thoughts on which is better choice. Standard plex reticle, figuring 3-4 - 14-15X 44mm objective.

rokslide.com

 

[slingerHB]

I have 2 v4 scopes on a 28 nosler and a 6.5prc. I have killed several animals with both guns and have tracked flawless for me. With one shot at 1100 yards with the 28 that dropped the elk. I feel they are very good quality for a good price. You can also find them on sale or a decent deal most times. I also like their reticle.

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[HuntHarder]

I have owned 4 Zeiss scopes. Currently have 3 on guns that get used often. All have tracked and performed with 0 issues. Newest one is the v6 3-18x50. Glass on Zeiss is amazing compared to most other scopes imo. Tracking has been spot on with 0 issues.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

I've had a V6 and two V4s. They all tracked, great glass, but all lost zero at some point. One cost me a very nice mule deer. All my scopes are now NF, no problems since. I also had a Trijicon tenmile that was solid as well.

 

[AlpineBeard]

Certain brands around here seem to get labeled as “bullet proof” and others are branded unreliable. I think this is due in part to the scope reviews here which in and of themselves are great (I enjoy reading them) but to assume they are statistically representative of anything is low resolution thinking. There are companies overseas like Light optics works that make scopes for many “manufactures”… that same manufacturer will have other lines made elsewhere, so it’s easy to label one brand as good or bad when those designations would be better reserved for certain lines of product within a given brand. Long story short… it’s complicated.

I instructed precision rifle for over ten years and that was eye opening for me in terms of what scopes are “bullet proof” and which are not. I ended up selling a lot of my gear off . I’ve owned many multiples of every major optics brand and generally have had good luck. Read all the reviews you can just keep in mind it’s a small sample size.

Other forums seem to be less tribal in terms of brands… I’m still in the industry and I’m not an optics expert so I will refrain from bashing any particular brands. Everyone should study statistics, it’s incredibly helpful with things like load development and taking reviews for what they are actually worth.

We are all biased, as well. I was so biased that it took me a lot longer to change my gear around than it should have… The brand i had to leave makes a MUCH better product these days and optics are generally more reliable than they were 15 years ago. The Best info on optics I’ve come across can be found on “optics thoughts”. Ilya (the owner of optics thoughts) admits he’s biased… that’s a good place to start.

 

[JohnJohnson]

The Best info on optics I’ve come across can be found on “optics thoughts”. Ilya (the owner of optics thoughts) admits he’s biased… that’s a good place to start.

I take what he says on image quality and optical quality as the closest thing to gospel you can get. I've asked him a few things over the years and he's very responsive. So is his friend Covertnoob5, who reviews some scopes and a lot of chassis systems. However he doesn't do durability testing, at least not intentionally. For that you have to look elsewhere.

Edit: Also I think OpticsThoughts hasn't been updated for a long time. He has a new webpage or something that you have to subscribe to but he occasionally does livestreams on Youtube.

 

[Hoodie]

I had a Zeiss V4 lose zero by 3 MOA within the first 3 range sessions. It most likely happened while it was riding in a soft case on my back seat while driving a fairly mellow gravel road. Immediately got sent back.

Hilariously I bought that Zeiss to replace a cheap Leupold that had held zero for years because I was worried it would fail me.

Replaced it with a Tract Toric that has held up fine for 2 years so far.

 

[SloppyJ]

Just picked up a v4 4x16x50 and it's going to live on my 280ai. I have two NF NX8s. If the V4 even gives me one hiccup, it's out of here for another NF.

However, I'm extremely impressed with it so far and I really like the T30 reticle. The glass is very good to my horrible eyes.

 

[AlpineBeard]

However he doesn't do durability testing, at least not intentionally. For that you have to look elsewhere.

He gives a clear explanation of why he doesn’t do this type of testing… with a small sample size the results would be misleading in both directions. You would need access to the warranty data. Unfortunately it generally comes down to marketing until a product has been out long enough to develop a good or bad reputation… but the bias helps prop up misconceptions for a long time or in some cases long enough for a manufacturer to get its act together.

I know a couple guys who’ve worked for multiple “American” rifle scope manufacturers and have supposedly seen this data… you also have to keep in mind some end users could get a faulty product but not realize it… other send scopes back that are functioning perfectly. The latter results were supposedly accounted for. All I’ll say is the results I have seen while instructing, the results reported to me and the general public consensus don’t all align. Marketing is king.

 

[gberb18]

All I’ll say is the results I have seen while instructing, the results reported to me and the general public consensus don’t all align. Marketing is king.

Well, what results has the v4 or v6 Zeiss scopes reported to you? Being that I have 50% off retail, it's going to be difficult to steer away without atleast trying a zeiss scope, likely the v6. What do you have to say about these scopes?

 

[AlpineBeard]

Well, what results has the v4 or v6 Zeiss scopes reported to you? Being that I have 50% off retail, it's going to be difficult to steer away without atleast trying a zeiss scope, likely the v6. What do you have to say about these scopes?

Those haven’t been as popular as many others. I believe the V4 is Japanese and the V6 is German but it could be just where the glass is sourced from. I have seen a few of each and haven’t personally witnessed a failure. I would buy one at 50% off retail personally. I would also go V6 for my money. I have two Japanese made Zeiss LRP S3’s and so far both have been flawless so far.

 

[AlpineBeard]

Not to make your decision hard again but I have seen a lot of Trijicon tenmile and they do seem to be very reliable. I’d run one workout hesitation but I don’t own any personally.

 

[SDHNTR]

He gives a clear explanation of why he doesn’t do this type of testing… with a small sample size the results would be misleading in both directions. You would need access to the warranty data. Unfortunately it generally comes down to marketing until a product has been out long enough to develop a good or bad reputation… but the bias helps prop up misconceptions for a long time or in some cases long enough for a manufacturer to get its act together.

I know a couple guys who’ve worked for multiple “American” rifle scope manufacturers and have supposedly seen this data… you also have to keep in mind some end users could get a faulty product but not realize it… other send scopes back that are functioning perfectly. The latter results were supposedly accounted for. All I’ll say is the results I have seen while instructing, the results reported to me and the general public consensus don’t all align. Marketing is king.

I’ve tried to find value in Ilya’s stuff. But the fact that he doesn’t test for THE most important quality in any rifle scope, but then writes pages about stuff that matters less and is virtually all just fine these days, leaves me scratching my head. It’s truly missing the forest for the trees.

I don’t buy the low sample size argument. If there is a problem with a design, and all scopes of that particular model are designed according to the same specs, then if one fails, odds are the rest will too.

When NHTSA does crash testing on a particular make/model of a vehicle, how many samples do they use? It can’t be many. They are looking for flaws in the design. This is the same concept.

Or, to rule out the low sample argument, a scope manufacturer could just do their damn job and do the testing for us and build stuff that works. Wouldn’t that be nice. Then maybe we’d have more than just Nightforce to rely on.