Youth Rifle in .223 / 5.56

[Yellowknife]

So my eldest (9) is about to graduate from rimfires to real scoped centerfires this year. He's got two sisters that will follow him, so I'm going to need a trainer rifle in the house for the next well... quite a few years.

I do already have a Remington 700 Youth in 7-08 sitting in the case that can be used for big game, but I'm a big believer in training via lots of spent rounds and a 7-08 is going to be a bit much I think. I also have a cabin in the mountains with miles of land to set up targets on, so this won't be much square range shooting from a bench. The idea will be to let the kids burn through a case of in-expensive ammo on steel targets without beating them up.

What I think I'm looking for is a relatively light .223 or 5.56 bolt rifle in a youth or "compact" configuration. I have ZERO experience with lighter calibers and very little with youth rifles, so help me out.

What I've come up with so far for requirements:

- Lightweight
- Fast Twist (I want to be able to shoot heavies)
- Adjustable LOP if possible. That seems pretty common.

What I DON'T want:

- Really cheap package rifle. I'm was fairly underwhelmed by fit and finish this 700 ADL Youth, and I don't think I want to drop even further down to an Axis or 783 or Mossberg, etc. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.
- Lousy fitting stock. It irritates me that most these rifles are full size guns with both ends whacked. I can already tell that a big challenge with most standard stocks is going to be the long gap between the trigger and the grip + dealing with poor cheek contact.


Options I've come up with so far:

Tikka Compact. I'm all ready pretty familiar with Tikka's, so this would fit right in. Twist seems to be listed a 1:8, so it checks all the boxes. Price would be at the upper end of what I'm looking to spend. Drawback is like most "compact" rifles it's really just a full size stock with the butt end hacked off. That means the pistol grip won't fit his hands at all, and will likely also be a bit barrel heavy from field positions.
T3x LITE COMPACT | Tikka

Ruger American Compact or Ranch rifle.
These have a slimmer stock which I might fit kids hands better? Twisted right, and the Ranch versions are threaded for a can (which a I have).
Ruger(R) Ruger American Rifle(R) Ranch Bolt-Action Rifle Models

Have also looked at the Savage "Lightweight Storm" which while technically not a youth rifle does have removable spacers and a very trim barrel. Availability in Alaska may be limited though, and I wasn't impressed by the last generation Savage I had. 1:9 twist.
Savage Arms - 110 LIGHTWEIGHT STORM - P01572

Does anybody have any experience with any of these, or others that might fit the bill? Anything outside the box I'm missing? Chassis systems?

 

[BigHink66]

Tikka, watch for 1:12 twists. I think they are more common.
Ruger is an economy rifle with poor stock and reports of poor feeding.
WeAtherby Camilla are nice, but I don’t think they grow.

Of your listed requirements I recommend a stag model 2. Only it’s an at.

 

[16Bore]

Ruger RAR might be "cheap" but they shoot better than they should. The compacts are well balanced little rifles.

 

[Newtosavage]

Might want to look at the CZ 527. Great rifle that will become an heirloom family rifle after it's been through all those hands.

 

[16Bore]

Just don't forget all the "kid dings" that come along the way.

My daughter cristianed her new 243 this weekend when she bounced it off the rest.

It happens!

 

[Yellowknife]

Tikka, watch for 1:12 twists. I think they are more common.

Good point. The current T3X is listed on the website as a 1:8 but it seems that most of the T3's (and maybe some T3X?) are the 1:12. Would make buying a used one more challenging.

Of your listed requirements I recommend a stag model 2. Only it’s an at.

I got to thinking about an AR last night. I don't have any experience with that platform at all. Was leaning towards a bolt action because it would be a similar manual of arms to a BG rifle, and presumably be safer for a easily distracted kid. I can see that advantage to a collapsible stock and AR type pistol grip though. Does anybody have experience with starting kids on an AR?

Might want to look at the CZ 527. Great rifle that will become an heirloom family rifle after it's been through all those hands.

The CZ 527 is one I hadn't seen before. The action size is neat. I don't know if I can get them locally in Alaska, but I'll look around.

 

[Tod osier]

I got to thinking about an AR last night. I don't have any experience with that platform at all. Was leaning towards a bolt action because it would be a similar manual of arms to a BG rifle, and presumably be safer for a easily distracted kid. I can see that advantage to a collapsible stock and AR type pistol grip though. Does anybody have experience with starting kids on an AR?

I did not start my son with one (given our state of residence), but I think it would be a great option given the adjustable stock with multiple kids. If you can keep weight down and have a good trigger I feel like that would be great to have in the mix. Being able to hammer on steel is one thing that keeps my son interested and an ar would be great for that.

 

[black dawg]

What I have learned with my kids is that light barrel weight is more important than an over all light rifle. Also a scope with very forgiving eye position helps a bunch.

We bought a savage lightweight hunter in 243, and with the length of pull shortened is has been a good fit, but recoil with the smaller girls was more than I expected, actually too much for much practice with it. Also, not the slickest action (bolt lift after firing) for someone just learning.

 

[Matt Cashell]

I got to thinking about an AR last night. I don't have any experience with that platform at all. Was leaning towards a bolt action because it would be a similar manual of arms to a BG rifle, and presumably be safer for a easily distracted kid. I can see that advantage to a collapsible stock and AR type pistol grip though. Does anybody have experience with starting kids on an AR?

I started my kids on a Colt M4. They shot their first deer with it at age 10 before moving up to the 7-08 at age 12. The compactness and adjustability of an AR is a great was for small framed children to learn to shoot centerfire. A gas 5.56 is really light on recoil and takes the scariness out of it for kiddos.

 

[Tod osier]

What I have learned with my kids is that light barrel weight is more important than an over all light rifle. Also a scope with very forgiving eye position helps a bunch.

We bought a savage lightweight hunter in 243, and with the length of pull shortened is has been a good fit, but recoil with the smaller girls was more than I expected, actually too much for much practice with it. Also, not the slickest action (bolt lift after firing) for someone just learning.

I did the same with the same gun, but in 308 with reduced loads and a brake. If the girls are still shooting it and the bolt lift is too heavy, I have the tactical bolt and knob that my son used (long with a lot of leverage) that I'll send you. He now has the strength and muscle memory to work it. Stock bolt is still stiff for him, but fine.

- - - Updated - - -

I started my kids on a Colt M4. They shot their first deer with it at age 10 before moving up to the 7-08 at age 12. The compactness and adjustability of an AR is a great was for small framed children to learn to shoot centerfire. A gas 5.56 is really light on recoil and takes the scariness out of it for kiddos.

Awesome shot Matt. Love it.

 

[JollyRoger]

I’ve got a Tikka T3X SuperLite and it shoots fantastic. Mine is 1:8 twist. I’d have no issues getting a compact version after seeing this thing shoot. It’s light, robust, shoots well. I think the only reason I might look at something else is if I wanted to spend less.


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[black dawg]

I did the same with the same gun, but in 308 with reduced loads and a brake. If the girls are still shooting it and the bolt lift is too heavy, I have the tactical bolt and knob that my son used (long with a lot of leverage) that I'll send you. He now has the strength and muscle memory to work it. Stock bolt is still stiff for him, but fine.

Thanks for the offer, but working on a different option all together for them instead.

 

[Yellowknife]

I started my kids on a Colt M4. They shot their first deer with it at age 10 before moving up to the 7-08 at age 12. The compactness and adjustability of an AR is a great was for small framed children to learn to shoot centerfire. A gas 5.56 is really light on recoil and takes the scariness out of it for kiddos.

Matt, did your kids have any issues with control manipulation or loading/unloading?

 

[Doc Holliday]

I have a Ruger American Ranch in 5.56. I carry it while doing chores during the offseason to shoot any coyotes, feral dogs, or hogs I might encounter. It is definitely the cheapest gun in my safe, and looks and feels like it, but it is accurate, and based on what I use it for it serves its purpose.

If you want something more heirloom-like, you might consider a Kimber Select Grade .223

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[Matt Cashell]

Matt, did your kids have any issues with control manipulation or loading/unloading?

No they didn't, but they had all been introduced to shooting on a Ruger 10/22 so the transition was pretty easy.

The subsequent transition to a bolt action wasn't too bad either.

 

[Yellowknife]

Thanks Matt. If your 10 yr old daughter can do it, then my son should have enough hand strength.

Luke,

What folding stock attachment is that?

 

[BigHink66]

I just bought a Mossberg Patriot bantam walnut for my 9 year old daughter. For what I paid I felt I was a good value. Hers is a 243 and I worked up a reduced recoil load. Not the caliber you want, but I felt it was worth it to get a stiff walnut stock. Besides she wanted wood and the options for that are few.

Not sure about the mvp.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

I start my girls out with a Stag Arms 3L. Control is very easy with ambi safety and ambi magazine release, it's a compact set up, and of courses the stock is adjustable to fit all. Transitioning to a bolt has not been a problem.......for those that have wanted to transition.

 

[luke moffat]

Luke,

What folding stock attachment is that?

I use both MDT and XLR folders but I believe the one in the pic above is an XLR.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I had a lowered end 700 in 223 in a cheap stock. I put it in a Magpul hunter stock. One of the unanticipated benefits is it can be adjusted down to a 13 inch LOP. Lower if you improved a recoil pad.

I am using it to train my kids and the lop is fine.