You traded in a big spotter for a compact…your feedback please

[Macintosh]

I just sold my razor hd 27-60x85 spotter, which is my benchmark. I use it at the range to spot bullet holes on paper out to a couple hundred yards, and I only occasionally use it hunting. I just don’t live in an area where spotting scopes are relevant, so it’s only every other year or so on a western hunt that it even gets considered. This one is just too big, too heavy, so I’m not using it even when I travel. I would like to get into a compact, lightweight spotter that maximizes value, i.e. best optics for the money. My goal is to be able to see deer antlers in a general sense out to about 2000-2500 yards, maybe a little more. I don’t need to score, I just need to see “antlers: yes or no, big or little”. I can’t do this with my 10 X binoculars on a tripod. I’ve used a few pairs of 15s and while they’re close, I don’t think they’re quite enough to see what I want to see, at least for my eyes. Im really focused on size and weight, I’d rather go without entirely, than have a spotter thats too big and heavy.

So, what are your suggestions for good/better/best options and reasoning, on either spotters or high magnification binoculars, to accomplish this? Money is a concern, but rather than specify a budget I’d like to see the range of options that people think are truly good, and decide from there.

 

[Antares]

I’m trying answer the same questions, antlers yes/no, big/little. So sounds like similar uses.

I’ve settled on RF 10x Leica Geovid Rs on my chest and a Kowa 554 (with Outdoorsman pan head and a Slik 632) on my pack.

I love the 554. It’s light. The glass is super bright. The image is usable all the way to the top end (45x). I keep it on the tripod, wrapped in my sitting pad, on the outside of my pack. Super fast to set up to get a quick look at something. After I found this combo 4ish years ago, I quit analyzing my optics setup. This works.

I have an 884 too but that stays in the truck.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Had a few razors, gen 1&2 65 & 85, they were okay. Pretty marginal at top end zoom. Went with an atc, fantastic FOV, fantastic clarity edge to edge at all zoom levels. Also have a meopta S2 I picked up for a big spotter, it is older but far better clarity than any of my razors. Baby comes with in most situations. The big spotter is for bigger country 3+ miles of glassing. Baby spotter had me clearly looking at antler details at a medium 3x3 last year at a 1500 yards or so, I can get a good idea of frame out to probably just shy of 2 miles

 

[TaperPin]

My old school fixed 30x (60mm) Leupold spotter gets used much the same way. It’s only 26 ounces and goes everywhere with me, usually rested on a pack without a tripod just to confirm antlers unless I know there’s a good spot to sit and glass at long range. A 85 mm Razor is shown at something like 66 ounces, so that extra 2-1/2 lbs would be a big difference, like carrying around an extra quart of water.

I’d like to get a Kowa 554 (28 ounces) to see how much better the image is at a higher magnification. The Nikon ed50 also seems interesting at 23 ounces.

Magnification is a funny thing. With things like old school surveying equipment you’d think they would use high magnification for better accuracy, but rarely was anything over 30x.

 

[Macintosh]

Sounds like the “best” options are either the swaro atc/stc or a kowa 553/554. Are there other similar-quality options in this top tier?

Then what’s the next step down in optical capability? And realistically what are you giving up? I’ve heard people mention the nikon ed 13-30x50 before, but Im not clear where it fits in. Im seeing other compact spotters such as the razor hd 13-39x56 , maven s2 12-27x56, and maybe others. Not sure what else is out there and where these fit in the hierarchy of things. Anyone able to lend their experience?

I’m aware my razor was never the best spotter out there, and I often found myself using it around 30 power or so simply to have a brighter image. I imagine that many of the compact spots really need to be at lower magnification in order to maintain a brighter image, I’m just not sure what the limitations of each are, so feedback folks have comparing is helpful. It’s highly doubtful I’ll be able to compare these side-by-side in the field.

 

[cuerro viejo]

I have swaro 65 and razor 50. Razor 50 might get pack in once a year depending on location, swaro NL 14x is a more versatile replacement for the weight. If I had the KOWA 5X’s I might like it enough to carry it more but the 5Xmm spotters just have such a small FOW they are better served as a dedicated center counsel truck spotter. In nut shell I’d take 14x pure over any 50-56mm spotter 99% of the time

 

[Hnthrdr]

Sounds like the “best” options are either the swaro atc/stc or a kowa 553/554. Are there other similar-quality options in this top tier?

Then what’s the next step down in optical capability? And realistically what are you giving up? I’ve heard people mention the nikon ed 13-30x50 before, but Im not clear where it fits in. Im seeing other compact spotters such as the razor hd 13-39x56 , maven s2 12-27x56, and maybe others. Not sure what else is out there and where these fit in the hierarchy of things. Anyone able to lend their experience?

I’m aware my razor was never the best spotter out there, and I often found myself using it around 30 power or so simply to have a brighter image. I imagine that many of the compact spots really need to be at lower magnification in order to maintain a brighter image, I’m just not sure what the limitations of each are, so feedback folks have comparing is helpful. It’s highly doubtful I’ll be able to compare these side-by-side in the field.

The new baby razor is not bad for the price point I had one for a bit, but the ATC and kowa are better now are they 1500 & 1200 or so better? That’s for you to decide

 

[Macintosh]

The new baby razor is not bad for the price point I had one for a bit, but the ATC and kowa are better now are they 1500 & 1200 or so better? That’s for you to decide

Well thats the rub, they’re more than double the price. If the cheaper one isnt good enough then maybe it is worth buying up? But I have a real hard time spending a couple grand to only really use it every couple years. Since you also had a bigger razor like mine, could you compare the two? And would you say you could usually tell if a deer had antlers and if so were they generally “big antlers” vs “little guy” at a mile and a half or so? How much does the baby vortex give up to the atc or kowa as far as light conditions, resolution, etc?

 

[LongWayAround]

I used a Kowa 55 for about a week. I also own the Kowa 77.

I would definitely be more likely to use the 55 more often.

As far as determining size at distance, we looked at some caribou at about 3.5 miles. It wasn't so good as the really assess them, but was good enough to say two of the six were worth getting closer.

We also looked over several bears and moose at 1000yd to a couple miles, they all looked big...

I'm not a glass snob and am fairly new to actually using a spotter, but I definitely give the little 55 a solid recommendation.

 

[ljalberta]

Sounds like the “best” options are either the swaro atc/stc or a kowa 553/554. Are there other similar-quality options in this top tier?

Then what’s the next step down in optical capability? And realistically what are you giving up? I’ve heard people mention the nikon ed 13-30x50 before, but Im not clear where it fits in. Im seeing other compact spotters such as the razor hd 13-39x56 , maven s2 12-27x56, and maybe others. Not sure what else is out there and where these fit in the hierarchy of things. Anyone able to lend their experience?

I’m aware my razor was never the best spotter out there, and I often found myself using it around 30 power or so simply to have a brighter image. I imagine that many of the compact spots really need to be at lower magnification in order to maintain a brighter image, I’m just not sure what the limitations of each are, so feedback folks have comparing is helpful. It’s highly doubtful I’ll be able to compare these side-by-side in the field.

I've had the chance to use and compare a number of spotters side by side on a number of different hunts. I have not used another 55mm class spotter that offers the same quality as the Kowa 55 and Swaro ATC/STC series. The Razo 13-39x56 is an excellent value option though. The glass and build quality was impressive for the dollar value saved versus the Kowa/Swaro, although you could tell a difference in certain things, such as ease of focus and a few smaller differences in the glass in more difficult glassing conditions. If you're looking to get a great option, but don't need the best, it's a fantastic option - albeit not on the exact same level as the Alphas.

The Nikon ED50 is a noticeable step down from the Razor in my experience, but does offer a very light and compact package for the backpack. I have not tried the Maven.

As a note, if you're looking to maximize use of the glass, I suggest getting a phone with an optical zoom lens and a digiscoping setup that allows you to use that zoom. It works better than any doubler I've experienced for glassing, and can give you a huge amount of zoom.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Well thats the rub, they’re more than double the price. If the cheaper one isnt good enough then maybe it is worth buying up? But I have a real hard time spending a couple grand to only really use it every couple years. Since you also had a bigger razor like mine, could you compare the two? And would you say you could usually tell if a deer had antlers and if so were they generally “big antlers” vs “little guy” at a mile and a half or so? How much does the baby vortex give up to the atc or kowa as far as light conditions, resolution, etc?

With the big razor, yes. I just hated toting that thing around, most of my glassing spots included some hiking, only a couple don’t so I would rather have something that is always in my pack.

The baby razor vs the ATC. ATC has much better edge to edge clarity, but baby razor was usable at all powers just lacked edge to edge, and the biggest advantage of the ATC is the fov is really good. Never did a good head to head with them, but I was cool with getting the AtC definitely a want purchase and not a need. The baby razor met the need imo. Which is something to really get a good idea of antler size at about 2 miles or less and be small and compact and always carry it with

 

[Macintosh]

Regarding the kowas, it appears there are a couple different generations of them. How do I know which generation is which, and is there anything to look out for, either plus or minus, on the various generations?