Wyoming long range hunting debate

[Jhconnected]

I have a hard time pushing both extremes: primitive weapons and long range hunting.

Primitive weapons do make it harder to get in range of the animal and I agree that reduces the likelihood of success. But going out and not having success after spending all that money can be as unfulfilling as not getting the opportunity. But they also increase the chance of the hunter recovering the shot animal because they don’t create as big of a wound or are just harder to be accurate with. So, I can’t push moving to weapons that more easily wound without recovery.

On the other end of the spectrum, saying with a little training and a little practice people can be qualified to shoot animals out to 1000 yards isn’t accurate. An overwhelming majority of rifle hunters do not have the time, resources, or access to be good enough to ethically shoot out past 500 yards or maybe less. Whether you like influencers or these channels, YT shows like Backfire and Erik Cortina have started to show that on their channels. Unqualified long range hunting can also cause unrecovered wounded animals (due to difficulty) which is also bad.

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t be able to use either extreme but pushing either isn’t necessarily good either. People need to be educated about the realities of all possibilities. They also need to be realistic with their own abilities.

Even though hunting is “dying” I think there are still more hunters vying for the same opportunities as there used to be. This could be caused by human population increase, media (social media, TV shows, magazines, forums, etc) influencing hunters to expand their hunting to other areas of the country, species, etc, or animal population decrease. The commercialization of hunting may not have helped either whether it be high fenced ranches selling hunts or apps like Go Hunt.

As hunters, we need to collectively push a couple of things to help each other increase access to opportunities. This includes preserving and growing public lands, increasing animal population, protecting hunting rights, educating non-hunters on the reality of hunting, educating hunters on how their actions influence the opinions of non-hunters, and educating hunters on their own abilities (like distance at which they can ethically harvest an animal be it with bow, muzzleloader or rifle).

 

[Hnthrdr]

As we’ve discussed, it depends somewhat on the species, geography, and target animal criteria, but in general, for most game, it’s much harder to find the target animal than to kill it. Exceptions apply.

BUT, if LR rifles are such a lethal showstopper, then what you described should not be possible. All those critters should already be dead and the land desolate, with all the high-tech rifle hunters running around.

By saying, “If I set just about any guy up in one of my glassing spots they could do the same,” you’re implying that you need to do the finding work for them. I’ll point out that you put in the work to find those glassing spots and the game found from them. How many average hunters would find a similar spot and game animals on their own without the aid of OnX et al.?

Too many hunters don’t have patience, thank you internet lol… most guys stop and glass for 5-10 min and move I’ll sit for 3-4 hours before I move… it’s not rocket science though

 

[ThorM465]

I’ll disagree with you on the finding vs. killing. I can go out and in a single day see 20 or so legal animals in a morning, they are often 1-2.5 miles away. Getting to 500 or less with a rifle is a LOT easier than getting to 150 or less with a muzzy or even less with a bow. If I set just about any guy up in one of my glassing spots they could do the same, now how many of them can close the distance and kill the animal will depend a lot on their skill and the weapon they are using

How about I take one for the team. Just for y'all, I wouldn't do it for anyone else. I'm going to let you take me to your spot and if I fill my cow tag this year, I'll concede that you have a point.

I think you're drastically underestimating how difficult it is to get on Elk for inexperienced Elk hunters. My hunting buddy and I covered over 100 square miles on boot in western Wyoming last year and didn't see a single Elk, lots of Moose, Mullies, other hunters, and other critters.

I’m confusing nothing. High lethality/high technology rifles killing at a half mile will fundamentally change hunting as we know it. Particularly out west.

Shooting animals at 800 yards is not even hunting. It’s just shooting.

Again, it’s a fundamental choice….

Brother you're being obtuse. This isn't shooting on the range at Camp Pendleton or Parris Island where we had range flags every 100 yards. I was shocked at how wild the wind could get in Wyoming if you weren't in a valley. I don't care what tech they have, the novice shooter isn't pulling of an accurate 800 yard shot in those winds.

 

[2531usmc]

How about I take one for the team. Just for y'all, I wouldn't do it for anyone else. I'm going to let you take me to your spot and if I fill my cow tag this year, I'll concede that you have a point.

I think you're drastically underestimating how difficult it is to get on Elk for inexperienced Elk hunters. My hunting buddy and I covered over 100 square miles on boot in western Wyoming last year and didn't see a single Elk, lots of Moose, Mullies, other hunters, and other critters.



Brother you're being obtuse. This isn't shooting on the range at Camp Pendleton or Parris Island where we had range flags every 100 yards. I was shocked at how wild the wind could get in Wyoming if you weren't in a valley. I don't care what tech they have, the novice shooter isn't pulling of an accurate 800 yard shot in those winds.

And I 100% agree with you. That was my point!

 

[Hnthrdr]

How about I take one for the team. Just for y'all, I wouldn't do it for anyone else. I'm going to let you take me to your spot and if I fill my cow tag this year, I'll concede that you have a point.

I think you're drastically underestimating how difficult it is to get on Elk for inexperienced Elk hunters. My hunting buddy and I covered over 100 square miles on boot in western Wyoming last year and didn't see a single Elk, lots of Moose, Mullies, other hunters, and other critters.



Brother you're being obtuse. This isn't shooting on the range at Camp Pendleton or Parris Island where we had range flags every 100 yards. I was shocked at how wild the wind could get in Wyoming if you weren't in a valley. I don't care what tech they have, the novice shooter isn't pulling of an accurate 800 yard shot in those winds.

Just for you can DM me where your cow tag is good for if it’s in Co, and I’ll do my best to put you into Cow elk if I have knowledge of the unit.

 

[ThorM465]

And I 100% agree with you. That was my point!

My point is that if you can't make a windage call at 800 yards you're most likely going to completely miss the Elk, at 300 yards you're likely to wound the animal.

Just for you can DM me where your cow tag is good for if it’s in Co, and I’ll do my best to put you into Cow elk if I have knowledge of the unit.

I sincerely appreciate that. Unfortunately most of my firearms are now illegal in CO. I'm hunting the Bridger-Teton National Forest in WY.

 

[Hnthrdr]

My point is that if you can't make a windage call at 800 yards you're most likely going to completely miss the Elk, at 300 yards you're likely to wound the animal.

I sincerely appreciate that. Unfortunately most of my firearms are now illegal in CO. I'm hunting the Bridger-Teton National Forest in WY.

Ummm I think your firearms are legal in Co, all mine are and lots are semi, and almost all have suppressors on them. But I could probably help with Bridger-Teton my buddy hunted a cow tag there two years ago successfully, I’ll get ya some trail heads

 

[06 SB]

I did not read all 26 pages but enough to post that you cannot under any circumstances legislate ethics in the field. We as hunters seem to always blame another group of hunters. Rifle only hunters blame archery hunters. Archery hunters blame crossbow or long range hunters etc. Every faction wounds animals whether using the wrong bullet/broadhead cartridge or exceeding their abilities. There are unethical/slob hunters everywhere. I shoot long range for fun and if anything it has taught me that much past 400 yards becomes very difficult if hunting. A lot YT videos bear this out. There are those who can do it, but not many.

Worry about your own abilities and limit the government regulations.

 

[rdramsey8]

I think there are different parts/agendas surrounding this discussion.

If someone is worried about wounded animals, then that would be better solved with a marksmanship requirement.

If fair chase is the argument, then my response would be, very few people invest the time shooting to be successful making shots in the field at long distances.

I grew up in this state (Wyoming) and have hunted here my whole life. I’ve seen more shitty marksman that wound animals at totally reasonable distances than skilled marksman making long shots. As someone that shoots weekly and is proficient at shooting, it is a lot harder to make it happen in the field than people think. There’s a lot that goes into making a 600 yard shot on an animal when you’re in an uncomfortable position, the wind is blowing, and your fingers are cold.

I think this whole discussion is stupid and we should just limit nonresident tags if we’re worried about game populations. There’s 500k people that live in this state….if there is too much pressure on the wildlife, it has little to do with advancements in firearm technology.

I will also agree that apps like onX and google earth are far more to blame than modern rifles/scopes.

Just my .02 cents as a longtime Wyoming resident.

 

[rdramsey8]

I did not read all 26 pages but enough to post that you cannot under any circumstances legislate ethics in the field. We as hunters seem to always blame another group of hunters. Rifle only hunters blame archery hunters. Archery hunters blame crossbow or long range hunters etc. Every faction wounds animals whether using the wrong bullet/broadhead cartridge or exceeding their abilities. There are unethical/slob hunters everywhere. I shoot long range for fun and if anything it has taught me that much past 400 yards becomes very difficult if hunting. A lot YT videos bear this out. There are those who can do it, but not many.

Worry about your own abilities and limit the government regulations.

I agree with this, anyone who shoots at distance knows it’s not as easy as some make it look and the reality is the dumbass that thinks he can make a 600-800 yard shot and ***** it up is the same dude that will **** up a 150 yard shot.

 

[rdramsey8]

I agree with this, anyone who shoots at distance knows it’s not as easy as some make it look and the reality is the dumbass that thinks he can make a 600-800 yard shot and ***** it up is the same dude that will **** up a 150 yard shot.

Ha, never realized we couldn’t swear on RS

 

[ThorM465]

I think there are different parts/agendas surrounding this discussion.

If someone is worried about wounded animals, then that would be better solved with a marksmanship requirement.

If fair chase is the argument, then my response would be, very few people invest the time shooting to be successful making shots in the field at long distances.

I grew up in this state (Wyoming) and have hunted here my whole life. I’ve seen more shitty marksman that wound animals at totally reasonable distances than skilled marksman making long shots. As someone that shoots weekly and is proficient at shooting, it is a lot harder to make it happen in the field than people think. There’s a lot that goes into making a 600 yard shot on an animal when you’re in an uncomfortable position, the wind is blowing, and your fingers are cold.

I think this whole discussion is stupid and we should just limit nonresident tags if we’re worried about game populations. There’s 500k people that live in this state….if there is too much pressure on the wildlife, it has little to do with advancements in firearm technology.

I will also agree that apps like onX and google earth are far more to blame than modern rifles/scopes.

Just my .02 cents as a longtime Wyoming resident.

You had me right up to limit nonresident tags. Nonresidents don't get enough tags to make any real difference on the overall health of the herd. However, we do provide something over 80% of the state's fish and wildlife budget that should be used to promote the health of the herds.
Eliminating nonresident tags would do net damage to the herds due to the loss of resources. Even reducing would be counter productive unless they raised prices elsewhere to account for the loss.

IF we're worried about game populations either:

• Cut resident tag numbers
• Increase resident tag cost to get more resources to promote better herds
  • You can increase nonresident tags, but you can increase the resident tags by a lot less and get a lot more.
• Decrease pressure on the animals by increasing the difficulty of access
  • Less motorized vehicle access
  • Restrict the use of horses and mules

 

[35WhelenAI]

Cutting resident tags (?) and increasing resident fees isn't going to do a thing to increase the health of a herd. Elk and other big game animals are adaptable. It's luxury Mountain Area growth, displacement, and the pukes on the Front Range of Colorado voting to introduce wolves are the problems. Elk know where and how to live without any person showing them. Until folks get tired of coming to Colorado because the internet tells them that's where to go for Elk because it's the largest herd and that shooting at Barrel busting range is called hunting, it's not getting better. My unit is safe, if a guy gets a shot past 300- 400 yds he's a long way from where I hunt in the unit. Let's raise a toast to the 600+ yd shot, or whatever range that is. Form a club for hunters to all sit together. They won't disturb the game while they rock paper scissors to see who gets to shoot.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

At the end of the day, bad shots happen. From novice all the way to the elite shooters. It happens. At every distance from super close to way out there

There is no feasible way to enforce a maximum shot distance

Animal recovery comes down to field craft when you don't see them fall in view. I believe too many hunters give up the search too early. Especially if they don't find blood immediately or within 20yds. They begin to doubt themselves that they may have missed.

If you are on blood and lose it, stop and grid backwards, you likely walked right pass it. Small trees, thick vegetation, dead fall can make big critters disappear