Wyoming Elk Permits - Overselling to cover losses

[Laramie]

To the casual observer, it would appear that the elk in Wyoming, based on the recommended quotas, did better than average this winter, despite this being the worst winter in recorded history for many areas.

As a general rule, elk do handle severe winters better than antelope and deer. However, they are still impacted. Their populations don't grow exponentially on years like this. With that in mind I would ask everyone to ask yourselves why the Wyoming Game and Fish is recommending increasing elk permits by over 3300 for this season. 53 different tags/areas were increased by over 3900 permits while there were only 10 overall tags/areas decreased by a total of 575. It just doesn't add up...

To me this is simply the WG&F trying to recoup losses. They are going to sell fewer antelope and deer permits than they planned so they are going to over issue higher priced elk permits to make up for the money lost. This isn't game management and this isn't good for the hunters in many of these areas. Sure some extra people will draw but there will be higher hunting pressure in many areas resulting is a lower quality hunt. There will be additional harvest in some areas that will hurt overall numbers and potentially lower trophy potential for years to come. There will be negative impacts and they know it but are recommending it anyways.

To those of you able to attend meetings, please speak up and at least ask some questions.

Elk recommendations - Chapter 7, Elk Hunting

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

I’ve probably given 10x that the average WY resident to WY F&G through tags and points, and yet have been repeatedly shat on by many residents and seen less and less opportunity every year.

Given that, I’ll take whatever wins I can take, and if the game managers say increasing elk tag numbers is ok, I’ll take them at their word. I’m certainly not calling and telling them to give me less opportunities.

 

[Dos Perros]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but perhaps with fewer deer and antelope on the landscape there will be more food for elk?

I saw Utah's survival rates on collared elk, they were very very high, like all of them in the 90+%, many 100% or 97%.

 

[Laramie]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but perhaps with fewer deer and antelope on the landscape there will be more food for elk?

I saw Utah's survival rates on collared elk, they were very very high, like all of them in the 90+%, many 100% or 97%.

I can appreciate the thought process and would love to think there are solid reasons behind the increases. The problem is there are no solid reasons other than the WG&F budget.

Even if there were zero antelope and deer, there would be less food on a year like this. They don't compete for forage in general unless the snow piles up so high options are taken away.

Many of the Utah survival rates are in areas not impacted by the winter. At best, severely impacted areas across the west will have average winter kill for elk. That doesn't equate to massive increases...

 

[Laramie]

I’ve probably given 10x that the average WY resident to WY F&G through tags and points, and yet have been repeatedly shat on by many residents and seen less and less opportunity every year.

Given that, I’ll take whatever wins I can take, and if the game managers say increasing elk tag numbers is ok, I’ll take them at their word. I’m certainly not calling and telling them to give me less opportunities.

I don't fault your line of thinking at all. The part that stinks is the hunt, when you draw, may not be what it should be from an experience standpoint due to increased pressure and/or fewer elk to hunt.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

Elk numbers are over objective all across the state. I would argue WY isn't doing enough to issue more tags to get elk numbers back to objective. Take advantage - these are the good ole days of elk hunting in Wyoming

 

[MuleyFever]

Have you compared the tag increases to the population objectives in those areas? WY elk have been over objective in many areas for years.

 

[Dos Perros]

Many of the Utah survival rates are in areas not impacted by the winter. At best, severely impacted areas across the west will have average winter kill for elk. That doesn't equate to massive increases...

The survival rates I saw included all regions in the state of Utah, and the lowest rates were very high...that's all I was trying to say.

I'm not sure what median/nominal winter survival rates are, and I can appreciate that the quotas take into account average winter loss, and you're saying we are likely to experience higher than average.

Perhaps all this snow is going to make lots of green grass and cover, making reproduction more fruitful? Sorry man you're talking to an optimist. I guess I need to read the email they sent on this.

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

I don't fault your line of thinking at all. The part that stinks is the hunt, when you draw, may not be what it should be from an experience standpoint due to increased pressure and/or fewer elk to hunt.

I get you man, I didn’t mean to come off shitty with my post. But it sucks that was my gut reaction.

I had some other guys on another forum suggest that WY F&G should cut all NR tags this year due to winter kill. I politely pointed out the percentage of the WY F&G budget came from NR license sales and how that just wasn’t feasible.

We all know talk like that is laughable, but it is tiresome feeling like the scapegoat for every game management or habitat crisis when you are flipping a big part of the bill.

Either way this winter kill will be a shit sandwhich that we’re all going to have to take a bite of to some degree, and it shouldn’t be a NR/R fight. NR special licenses just had a huge increase… Maybe it’s time to increase resident fees a bit too?

 

[BRTreedogs]

Because agricultural producers are always bitching about elk eating there crops.
But yet they don't want to let anyone on.
And they want damages.

To me its actually a business in itself. Attract Elk into a safe haven. Then cry about damage and get payed.

 

[Laramie]

Have you compared the tag increases to the population objectives in those areas? WY elk have been over objective in many areas for years.

I have looked at many of the areas I am familiar with. Elk have been "over objective" for years in most areas. Objective, unfortunately, is an ever fluctuating number that accounts for landowner tolerance more than carrying capacity of the land.

Please don't misunderstand, I don't think they are going to kill too many elk in most of the areas. I think they are going to raise hunting pressure significantly which will hurt the quality of hunts. A few areas may see a quality downgrade because of overharvest of mature bulls but in general, these increases are just going to result in more unsuccessful hunters imo.

 

[Laramie]

Elk numbers are over objective all across the state. I would argue WY isn't doing enough to issue more tags to get elk numbers back to objective. Take advantage - these are the good ole days of elk hunting in Wyoming

For many areas, doubling or tripling the permits sold would actually result in lower harvest, and make for terrible hunting experiences. High hunter pressure, in general, moves elk herds to inaccessible places. Most of the time that is private land.

 

[MallardSX2]

Any minute now Randy should be releasing a youtube video letting people know how good the elk hunting will be this year and to burn their points.

 

[KHNC]

For many areas, doubling or tripling the permits sold would actually result in lower harvest, and make for terrible hunting experiences. High hunter pressure, in general, moves elk herds to inaccessible places. Most of the time that is private land.

Exactly what happens! I also agree with taking away the 9/15 season in areas that have a type 9 tag. Save a bunch of points to hunt one of these areas and then the GEN season starts and it gets FLOODED with hunters all of a sudden, decreasing the opportunity for everyone. This will ease the pressure in some areas and possibly reduce some of the overharvest as well.

 

[Steve O]

Well, I won’t get sucked in to applying this year…still stocking and saving those “preference” points until they are completely worthless…so hopefully I can get one good elk hunt in with my son once he’s established. In a few years our averaged 15 or 17 points might get us a general tag. Not really counting on it anymore though.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

As stated repeatedly above a lot of herds have way too many elk. The problem is that more tags doesn’t equate to more elk harvested, the herds with too many elk tend to have a lot of private land mixed in where the elk post up.

The Laramie peak unit for example, they cant shoot enough elk every year, something else needs to be done to expand hunting access to these private lands.

Also speaking as a biologist…..if only there were some type of native predator that had a tendency to force elk to move around and break up the mega herds, while harvesting some themselves…..if only….guess we’ll just have to deal with 20k elk parking themselves on ag lands and having farmers bitch that theyre eating all the alfalfa.

 

[BRTreedogs]

I think for every land owner/damage tag or $10k they receive they should have to let one hunter on from the public.
Maybe said hunters have to go through some sort of qualifying program, once you get a cal you get 5 days to harvest a cow on said land. Harvest or not after day 5 your time is up.

 

[FlareBlitz91]

I think for every land owner/damage tag or $10k they receive they should have to let one hunter on from the public.
Maybe said hunters have to go through some sort of qualifying program, once you get a cal you get 5 days to harvest a cow on said land. Harvest or not after day 5 your time is up.

The licensing infrastructure for this basically already exists with the HMA program, if you’ve got a tag you can apply for a permission slip to hunt private lands in the area, some are random draw, some first come first serve.

It might not be that popular with NR hunters out for an experience but it’s be great for more local hunters wanting to fill a freezer with a cow or folks who can’t climb a mountain anymore.

 

[Laramie]

The licensing infrastructure for this basically already exists with the HMA program, if you’ve got a tag you can apply for a permission slip to hunt private lands in the area, some are random draw, some first come first serve.

It might not be that popular with NR hunters out for an experience but it’s be great for more local hunters wanting to fill a freezer with a cow or folks who can’t climb a mountain anymore.

I have seen B&C antelope and deer taken on HMAs over the years and a few really nice bulls. Some HMAs have real trophy potential.

 

[KHNC]

As stated repeatedly above a lot of herds have way too many elk. The problem is that more tags doesn’t equate to more elk harvested, the herds with too many elk tend to have a lot of private land mixed in where the elk post up.

The Laramie peak unit for example, they cant shoot enough elk every year, something else needs to be done to expand hunting access to these private lands.

Also speaking as a biologist…..if only there were some type of native predator that had a tendency to force elk to move around and break up the mega herds, while harvesting some themselves…..if only….guess we’ll just have to deal with 20k elk parking themselves on ag lands and having farmers bitch that theyre eating all the alfalfa.

nobody wants (non-native ) Canadian wolves in the area decimating elk herds. Plenty of them in NW Montana. Now nearly ALL the elk are on private land because they can barely survive in the public land in the area because of wolf predation. So dont even start up that BS here.