Wyoming Elk General Tag vs LQ Tag

[rookieforever33]

Honestly if you are a non resident and add up dollars and years spent building preference points you are probably better off buying a landowner tag in another state. If its going to take 10 years to draw a bull tag save the money instead of buying points. If you go the point route you could likely end up just losing that money if you have a life changing event, or just change your mind. Or go low odds success otc and enjoy the process but know you are not as likely to tag out every time you go. Or you can do what many are doing and move to a state with elk if its that important. But beware, the only thing western state hunters dislike more than non residents, is new residents that move there to hunt.

 

[MuleyFever]

Where can I buy a landowner tag for a bull elk for the same price as 10 years of buying a point?

 

[Grizzly550]

Does anyone have the same graphic from previous years? My research skills are normally pretty on point but I can't seem to find the same data from years previous.

 

[sasquatch]

Honestly if you are a non resident and add up dollars and years spent building preference points you are probably better off buying a landowner tag in another state. If its going to take 10 years to draw a bull tag save the money instead of buying points. If you go the point route you could likely end up just losing that money if you have a life changing event, or just change your mind. Or go low odds success otc and enjoy the process but know you are not as likely to tag out every time you go. Or you can do what many are doing and move to a state with elk if its that important. But beware, the only thing western state hunters dislike more than non residents, is new residents that move there to hunt.

Reality hits them then, people move in, push up local prices, start voting for changes, more development happens which removes habitat etc etc.

All of a sudden deep down it hits them, maybe just letting them come hunt for 1 week is better


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[MallardSX2]

This real problem and elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about is the bullshit point averaging.

25% or more of the people on that list will never even step foot in Wyoming. People are buying points for everyone in their family to be able to game the system.

The State of Wyoming 100% needs to do away with point averaging right now. I know at least 2 DOZEN people who are getting points for people who have 0 intention of ever hunting Wyoming. They are buying points for everyone to be able to average in to get a tag year after year.

Once again, those with more money, can gain an enormous advantage......

Wyoming loves it though. Free money for them and let us peasants duke it out in the draws.....

 

[HairyScandinavian]

This real problem and elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about is the bullshit point averaging.

25% or more of the people on that list will never even step foot in Wyoming. People are buying points for everyone in their family to be able to game the system.

The State of Wyoming 100% needs to do away with point averaging right now. I know at least 2 DOZEN people who are getting points for people who have 0 intention of ever hunting Wyoming. They are buying points for everyone to be able to average in to get a tag year after year.

Once again, those with more money, can gain an enormous advantage......

Wyoming loves it though. Free money for them and let us peasants duke it out in the draws.....

Is this really a thing? Damn... I figured the no refunds thing would at least minimize it.

 

[MallardSX2]

Is this really a thing? Damn... I figured the no refunds thing would at least minimize it.

Keep dreaming friend.

Sadly, people are doing and paying WHATEVER it takes to get a tag these days.

There are a lot of people on this very forum that are cringing because of me even posting about this backdoor tactic to tags. Know that.

There is a TON of system gaming going on.

 

[wapitibob]

Is this really a thing? Damn... I figured the no refunds thing would at least minimize it.

Not enough of a thing to matter, 99% of Internet statistics are made up within 30 seconds of posting, 99% of the time.
In WY they still pre pay for the license which discourages most of it just like in other states. Points and point averaging aren't going anywhere fortunately. Smart parents buy points for their kids as well as use their own to party app with those kids, relatives, or friends.

"Cringing", that's cute. I buy points for 6 accounts in WY. My brother quit hunting for 30 years then one day asked me to take him Pronghorn hunting in WY. I'd have felt pretty stupid asking him to hunt for a few years then when he decided to go, have to say sorry.

 

[MallardSX2]

See example above. Basically already calling what I said fake news. lol

I mentioned that I had ~ a dozen elk and antelope points in Wyoming on another forum and had 5 different people PM me within 2 days asking if I would be interested in averaging with them. One of them was a guide.

 

[wapitibob]

I mentioned that I had ~ a dozen elk and antelope points in Wyoming on another forum and had 5 different people PM me within 2 days asking if I would be interested in averaging with them. One of them was a guide.

So what? It takes you out of a top pool and pulls another one up and another guy draws from that upper pool and is gone as well.

 

[Shadow Illude]

One in three chance of drawing the W general tag for nonresident if they shell out the money for special draw. Decent odds.

 

[Indian Summer]

Mallard I have a 4 points. Wanna go camping?

 

[Sanchez]

I am happy harvesting a cow elk just as much as a bull. Is the future going to have drawable non resident cow hunts with a reasonable chance of success and only a few preference points?

 

[rookieforever33]

Where can I buy a landowner tag for a bull elk for the same price as 10 years of buying a point?

Time has a value also. Hunting now instead of the 10 year wait. Or maybe longer with point creep. How many people buy points for 6-9 of those years and drop out? Read about these people sitting at 10 or so points and being "stuck in the middle", thats not where they thought they would be when they started buying points. Save hard for a few years and buying that landowner tag and hunting while you have the desire and ability, or pissing money into the points pool that may never fill up? Play the game you want, but dont act like the short term game of landowner tags doesn't have benefits for spending more money now. Personally I do not have cash to buy into some of the great landowner tags, but I also dont have 10-15 years to wait for something that may never come. Therefore I plan on having less "quality" tags, but going more often.

 

[Scottf270]

Gonna try and do Wyoming west general in the special this year. After that, I gotta contact in the East region and may give it a shot. If that doesn't pan out, I'll likely do a New Mexico draw tag/ landowner tag.

 

[MallardSX2]

So what? It takes you out of a top pool and pulls another one up and another guy draws from that upper pool and is gone as well.

I think you are missing my primary point. Which, in all fairness, I didn't really make clear.

Point averaging is allowing fictitious point holders to displace actual humans that want to hunt.

This really isn't about Grandpa Joe with his 12 preference points allowing his grandson with 0 to average into a 6 point draw together and enjoy one last hooorah before Joe is pushing flowers......

This is about the guys who are doing the following:
Wife-10 points.
Kid 1- 10 points.
Kid 2 10 points.
Aunt-10 points.
Uncle Ron - 10 points.
Uncle Bob - 10 points
Dad- 10 points points.

Year 1 Dad hunts and burned his points on a nice LE hunt.

(GREAT. He got a nice bull and Wyoming will see him again in 10 years????)

NOPE!

Year 2 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with wife and wife doesn't hunt.
Year 3 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Kid 1 and Kid 1 doesnt hunt.
Year 4 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Kid 2 and Kid 2 doesn't hunt.
Year 5 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Aunt and Aunt doesn't hunt.
Year 6 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with Uncle and Uncle doesn't hunt.
Year 7 dad applies as a group (General season Elk 5 point average) with wife and wife doesn't hunt.

This is the scenario that is playing out.

There is now 6 people being displaced in the draw who ACTUALLY want to hunt. This pushed point creep higher and higher.

Point averaging is a JOKE and people with money are gaming the system like a MF. If I had a ton of application money I would 100% could have been doing this for the last 15 years and been living the dream, hunting Wyoming yearly. Just pay for my groups general tag, and when I get it, toss it in the trash if they don't want it and go hunting.

How do you think people are able to hunt G every year as a NR? Think that's fair?

Maybe. Maybe not. I guess it really and truly depends on what end of the point spectrum you are sitting on.

 

[Indian Summer]

That’s pushing 4 grand in points and buying two licenses every year. I don’t think there are too many people doing that. But what do I know.

And a 5 point average isn’t enough either.

 

[MallardSX2]

That’s pushing 4 grand in points and buying two licenses every year. I don’t think there are too many people doing that. But what do I know.

And a 5 point average isn’t enough either.

After the initial investment (of less than 1 guided elk hunt), its $800 in points and paying $1400 in license to ensure you can hunt the same spot in Wyoming on a general elk tag every singer year for less than $2500. There is a lot of people jumping at that chance.

I could be wrong. But I am not, as I know people doing it for both deer and elk actually.

If they made it so the group average rounded to the lowest point holder in the group (like most states) this bull$hit would stop. You would also see point only applications drastically reduced. Which means less revenue for G&F so that likely wont happen......They know what's going on and they are profiting from it...

 

[elkocd]

After the initial investment (of less than 1 guided elk hunt), its $800 in points and paying $1400 in license to ensure you can hunt the same spot in Wyoming on a general elk tag every singer year for less than $2500. There is a lot of people jumping at that chance.

I could be wrong. But I am not, as I know people doing it for both deer and elk actually.

If they made it so the group average rounded to the lowest point holder in the group (like most states) this bull$hit would stop. You would also see point only applications drastically reduced. Which means less revenue for G&F so that likely wont happen......They know what's going on and they are profiting from it...

Seems like a WIN WIN for WY F&G and WY residents! Increased revenue and less actual hunters in the woods. Not sure what the incentive would be for them to want to change that.

 

[Laramie]

I know of several people buying points for non-hunting family members. It used to be a more solid strategy for all species but as point creep gets up there, I'm not sure it will make as much sense as it used to. I have only ever done it to get my two boys antelope permits. I saved up enough points to split with them once they were old enough to go. That was back in the day a guy could draw a decent antelope tag with 2 or 3 points. Now a dad would need to sacrifice 10-12 years just to get him and his kid on a marginal antelope hunt.