WY Mule Deer and APR

[jbelz]

<div class="bbWrapper">I felt like I was about to derail another thread regarding mule deer in the Wyoming Range, so I thought I&#039;d type this up and see where folks land on it. Mule deer hunting is my jam, and a few years ago I got tired of hearing all of my buddies&#039; theories on what was going on. So, I reached out to some WGFD biologists and some university academics who&#039;d been involved with quite a bit of research (specifically in WY). <br /> <br /> After speaking with all of these people, and after looking at my own personal experience in the field, I came up with my own opinion. I try to keep an open mind about things I care about, so my opinion has evolved a little over the years. Nonetheless, here&#039;s what I&#039;ve got:<br /> <br /> (tl;dr: I researched a lot of sh** about mule deer and here&#039;s what I&#039;ve come up with)<br /> <br /> From the G&amp;F&#039;s perspective, APR&#039;s are a way to reduce hunting pressure and very temporarily improve buck to doe ratios in a particular area (areas are synonymous with units). After 3 years, this perceived benefit turns to poison, and herd dynamics begin to suffer. <a href="http://check it out here" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Habitat/Mule%20Deer%20Initiative/MULEDEER_ANTLERPOINTREGS_REVIE0006790.pdf</a><br /> <a href="http://check it out here" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://check it out here</a><br /> From personal conversations I&#039;ve had with G&amp;F officials, the general consensus is hunting and hunting pressure is the least of a mule deer&#039;s worries – I agree with this sentiment to an extent, there are certainly more pressing concerns, but it doesn&#039;t change the fact that intense hunting pressure is bad for mule deer. G&amp;F officials don&#039;t really believe hunters are the cause of any measurable negative effects. Researchers and academics say mule deer are impacted by damn near everything. The balance needs to be there of course – without conservation dollars and research we wouldn&#039;t know what we know now – but if reduction in pressure is warranted, there has to be a better way than APR&#039;s.<br /> <br /> What I don&#039;t understand is if G&amp;F doesn&#039;t believe hunting pressure is all that serious, why have APR&#039;s in the first place? If the idea is to manage our herds in the best way possible, why implement a strategy that has questionable benefits and can seriously harm a herd? <br /> <br /> &quot;Colorado implemented antler point restrictions for mule deer on a statewide basis for six years, and for a seven year period in several individual Game Management Units (GMUs). These seasons shifted hunting pressure to bucks greater than 2years old. A marked increase in illegal or accidental harvest of yearling bucks was documented. However, the number and proportion of mature bucks did not increase.&quot; - WGFD study.<br /> <br /> Seems like the tough answer would be tag reductions in at least some capacity. If I could wave my magic wand, I&#039;d have resident general tags restricted to regions (like NR), and I certainly wouldn&#039;t have general tags available for the Wyoming Range, which just lost roughly 60% of its herd. This is coming from a guy who loves hunting mule deer every year. Money and politics talk, though. Interestingly enough, more than half of hunters supported this idea in a WGFD survey. I&#039;d even be fine with splitting archery and rifle seasons (i.e. choose your adventure, can&#039;t have both).<br /> <br /> In short, APR&#039;s don&#039;t really work to solve any meaningful problems and they&#039;re potentially harmful if allowed to continue for too long. I&#039;d like to see mule deer managed so it doesn&#039;t become equivalent to drawing a sheep tag. And, I apologize if this is a horse that&#039;s been beaten already. Comment periods are open now, so I thought it&#039;d warrant a discussion.</div>

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 87472" data-quote="jbelz" data-source="post: 3557232" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=3557232" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-3557232">jbelz said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> What I don&#039;t understand is if G&amp;F doesn&#039;t believe hunting pressure is all that serious, why have APR&#039;s in the first place? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--unfurl js-unfurl fauxBlockLink" data-unfurl="true" data-result-id="102591" data-url="https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short.319690/" data-host="rokslide.com" data-pending="false"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main"> <h3 class="contentRow-header js-unfurl-title"> <a href="https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short.319690/" class="link link--external fauxBlockLink-blockLink" target="_blank" rel="" data-proxy-href=""> Antler Point Restrictions with Wyo Bio Jeff Short </a> </h3> <div class="contentRow-snippet js-unfurl-desc">https://www.rokslide.com/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short/ Jeff’s not only a good biologist, he’s a buck hunter too.</div> <div class="contentRow-minor contentRow-minor--hideLinks"> <span class="js-unfurl-favicon"> <img src="https://www.rokslide.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Rokslide-74x74.png" loading="lazy" alt="rokslide.com" class="bbCodeBlockUnfurl-icon" data-onerror="hide-parent"/> </span> rokslide.com </div> </div> </div> </div> <br /> I believe your answer is in this podcast. Public demand.</div>

 

[jbelz]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 82886" data-quote="Wyo_hntr" data-source="post: 3557244" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=3557244" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-3557244">Wyo_hntr said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> <div class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--unfurl js-unfurl fauxBlockLink" data-unfurl="true" data-result-id="102591" data-url="https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short.319690/" data-host="rokslide.com" data-pending="false"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main"> <h3 class="contentRow-header js-unfurl-title"> <a href="https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short.319690/" class="link link--external fauxBlockLink-blockLink" target="_blank" rel="" data-proxy-href=""> Antler Point Restrictions with Wyo Bio Jeff Short </a> </h3> <div class="contentRow-snippet js-unfurl-desc">https://www.rokslide.com/antler-point-restrictions-with-wyo-bio-jeff-short/ Jeff’s not only a good biologist, he’s a buck hunter too.</div> <div class="contentRow-minor contentRow-minor--hideLinks"> <span class="js-unfurl-favicon"> <img src="https://www.rokslide.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Rokslide-74x74.png" loading="lazy" alt="rokslide.com" class="bbCodeBlockUnfurl-icon" data-onerror="hide-parent"/> </span> rokslide.com </div> </div> </div> </div> <br /> I believe your answer is in this podcast. Public demand. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Oh, I get that. I was asking rhetorically, and hopefully more people will start to change their opinion on APR&#039;s and speak up. It&#039;s a losing battle, I&#039;m sure.</div>

 

[willfrye027]

<div class="bbWrapper">I’ve talked with a local biologist in a different unit about the revolving APRs.<br /> <br /> Honestly I think it helps keep the meat hunter type residents away for a year. They have no other way to manage resident hunter numbers..but the guy who just wanting to smash a forkie off the road, is going to go somewhere else when there is a 4pt or better APR in place. Remember they have a long seasons and many units they can fill their deer tag. Not everyone out there is hardcore.<br /> <br /> Resident hunter pressure is well documented to dramatically decrease when there are APRs. At least in the units I did more of a deep dive in.<br /> <br /> May not apply to the backcountry of G and H…but honestly the herd needs a break from Mother Nature. A few weeks of deer season is nothing compared to months in the sage brush up to their bellies in snow.<br /> <br /> I think APRs might save a few bucks (which does nothing for the herd) and lessen overall pressure a bit but the biologists are probably right, weather is king for those herds.</div>

 

[nurpuwy]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 87472" data-quote="jbelz" data-source="post: 3557232" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=3557232" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-3557232">jbelz said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I felt like I was about to derail another thread regarding mule deer in the Wyoming Range, so I thought I&#039;d type this up and see where folks land on it. Mule deer hunting is my jam, and a few years ago I got tired of hearing all of my buddies&#039; theories on what was going on. So, I reached out to some WGFD biologists and some university academics who&#039;d been involved with quite a bit of research (specifically in WY).<br /> <br /> After speaking with all of these people, and after looking at my own personal experience in the field, I came up with my own opinion. I try to keep an open mind about things I care about, so my opinion has evolved a little over the years. Nonetheless, here&#039;s what I&#039;ve got:<br /> <br /> (tl;dr: I researched a lot of sh** about mule deer and here&#039;s what I&#039;ve come up with)<br /> <br /> From the G&amp;F&#039;s perspective, APR&#039;s are a way to reduce hunting pressure and very temporarily improve buck to doe ratios in a particular area (areas are synonymous with units). After 3 years, this perceived benefit turns to poison, and herd dynamics begin to suffer. <a href="http://check it out here" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Habitat/Mule%20Deer%20Initiative/MULEDEER_ANTLERPOINTREGS_REVIE0006790.pdf</a><br /> <a href="http://check it out here" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">http://check it out here</a><br /> From personal conversations I&#039;ve had with G&amp;F officials, the general consensus is hunting and hunting pressure is the least of a mule deer&#039;s worries – I agree with this sentiment to an extent, there are certainly more pressing concerns, but it doesn&#039;t change the fact that intense hunting pressure is bad for mule deer. G&amp;F officials don&#039;t really believe hunters are the cause of any measurable negative effects. Researchers and academics say mule deer are impacted by damn near everything. The balance needs to be there of course – without conservation dollars and research we wouldn&#039;t know what we know now – but if reduction in pressure is warranted, there has to be a better way than APR&#039;s.<br /> <br /> What I don&#039;t understand is if G&amp;F doesn&#039;t believe hunting pressure is all that serious, why have APR&#039;s in the first place? If the idea is to manage our herds in the best way possible, why implement a strategy that has questionable benefits and can seriously harm a herd?<br /> <br /> &quot;Colorado implemented antler point restrictions for mule deer on a statewide basis for six years, and for a seven year period in several individual Game Management Units (GMUs). These seasons shifted hunting pressure to bucks greater than 2years old. A marked increase in illegal or accidental harvest of yearling bucks was documented. However, the number and proportion of mature bucks did not increase.&quot; - WGFD study.<br /> <br /> Seems like the tough answer would be tag reductions in at least some capacity. If I could wave my magic wand, I&#039;d have resident general tags restricted to regions (like NR), and I certainly wouldn&#039;t have general tags available for the Wyoming Range, which just lost roughly 60% of its herd. This is coming from a guy who loves hunting mule deer every year. Money and politics talk, though. Interestingly enough, more than half of hunters supported this idea in a WGFD survey. I&#039;d even be fine with splitting archery and rifle seasons (i.e. choose your adventure, can&#039;t have both).<br /> <br /> In short, APR&#039;s don&#039;t really work to solve any meaningful problems and they&#039;re potentially harmful if allowed to continue for too long. I&#039;d like to see mule deer managed so it doesn&#039;t become equivalent to drawing a sheep tag. And, I apologize if this is a horse that&#039;s been beaten already. Comment periods are open now, so I thought it&#039;d warrant a discussion. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>I appreciate your fact-based approach and letting multiple sources of information shape your opinion rather than the other way around... refreshing to say the least. I also love to chase big deer, but in the end conservation and heard health in relation to what we define as a trophy is often mutually exclusive to overall fitness of an animal.</div>

 

[ElkArcher918]

<div class="bbWrapper">Aside from severe hard winterkills and diseases like CWD in many Western states the biggest challenges our iconic mule deer faces is loss/degradation of habitat due to human population growth and infra-structure development. Our hard working state G&amp;F biologists and habitat ecologists do the best they can but at the end of the day it&#039;s the decision-making politicos that have the final say. Not always easy to find the right balance between sound game/habitat management and the socio-economics of each Western states. I think Wyo does a good job at finding that balance which is always a moving target. <br /> <br /> Pardon for digressing here. Now if they can just fix that bogus Wyo no NR hunting in Wilderness Area wo guide. C&#039;mon most these areas are Fed lands belonging to all hunting Americans.</div>

 

[mt terry d]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 28835" data-quote="willfrye027" data-source="post: 3557313" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=3557313" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-3557313">willfrye027 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> They have no other way to manage resident hunter numbers... </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Yes they do. <br /> <br /> It&#039;s really no different than shipping wolves into Colorado:<br /> <br /> It comes down to $$ and public opinion/perception, not proper and sound<br /> game management as we&#039;d like to believe.<br /> <br /> Ever wonder why much private land is fantastic hunting vs much Public hunting? <br /> Better wildlife biologists? Better wildlife studies? <br /> <br /> If the USFWS or state game departments were private agencies hired by the public and contracts based upon results, most would have lost their contracts and been fired long ago. They are at heart political which means their primary objective is to grow.</div>