WY Corner Crossing Solution?

[Justin Crossley]

I've said it before but I'll say it again.

North Dakota has the best laws regarding accessing PUBLIC property.

Basically, you can walk all section lines through private property to access public. If there is a two track or road on the section line, you can drive it.

I wish all the other states would adopt the exact same laws.

 

[wapitibob]

Title 23 trespass requires intent to hunt private, this removes that requirement.

 

[Jethro]

Wardens have always been able to cite for trespass just not criminal trespass which they still can't even with this bill.

Yes, and this bill changes what constitutes trespass. As was pointed out in Bob's post.^^

 

[Wrench]

They're gonna push until someone gets pissed off and burns them out.

 

[f16jack]

Wyoming lawsuit: In 2004 Bill Kearney of Douglas was acquited of trespass charges when he corner jumped. The AG memo on 25 Aug 2004 stated: “’Corner Crossing’ may still be a criminal trespass under Wyoming Statue 6-3-303. Wyoming Game and Fish enforcement officers do not have the legislative authority to enforce this statute. Unfortunately, that leaves Game and Fish in the position of referring reports of ‘corner crossing’ to the local sheriff’s or county attorney’s office.” (see attachment)

As described in postings above, the proposed bill (SF0056) looks to expand hunting violations to include simple trespass across land to hunt legal land. It tightens, not loosens, restrictions against corner crossing.

A simple expansion of the flawed logic in the proposed law would be as follows:
If I were speeding on my way to hunt, I violated a law. When pulled over and asked where I was going, I'd respond "hunting over there." At that point the officer would then say, "well, since you committed this offense while on your way to hunt, you are now guilty of a hunting violation. We now have the authority to take your tag, your gun as evidence, and we'll see you in court for a violation of the hunting regulations." Non sequitur.

If passed, this law (SF0056) would be welcomed by landowners, in that it allows wardens to enforce simple trespass.

It does not, though, address at all the legality of crossing the airspace above the property. If the law specifically said that folks could cross airspace above private land it may constitute an illegal taking of property.

However, in Camfield v. United States (1897), the Supreme court found that obstruction of access to even-numbered lots by individually fenced odd-numbered lots was illegal. Camfield had owned many checkerboarded parcels, and fenced them with the result being the blocking off of about 20,000 acres of public domain. The Camfield decision relies on a legal maxim that holds that a landowner may use his or her property “in such a manner as to not injure that of another,” the high-court stated. To rule otherwise would be contrary to the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution, the opinion stated.

Camfield's fences (the red dots):


Much of the discussion centers around the Unlawful Inclosures Act.

Good article here: https://wyofile.com/hunters-claim-in-filing-that-courts-have-okd-corner-crossing/

One current lawsuit making its way through the Federal District Court D, Wyoming is
Iron Bar Holdings LLC v. Cape (2:22-cv-00067).

Iron Bar Holdings LLC v. Cape et al

Other Statutory Actions case filed on March 22, 2022 in the Wyoming District Court

dockets.justia.com

you can follow the case here:

Iron Bar Holdings LLC v. Cape, 2:22-cv-00067 - CourtListener.com

Docket for Iron Bar Holdings LLC v. Cape, 2:22-cv-00067 — Brought to you by the RECAP Initiative and Free Law Project, a non-profit dedicated to creating high quality open legal information.

www.courtlistener.com

 

[drdrop]

We need to understand how this legislation evolved from Barry Crago's introduction in the 2022 session to the 2023 session to fully appreciate how SF056 (now law) helped us hunters with public land access.

In the 2022 session, Crago originally introduced language that specified 'pass through' public lands. That language could have meant swinging a leg over a corner, or even floating a boat over the surface of private land! Luckily the bill was tabled for fleshing out with the committee. Details on the 2022 debate here: https://wyofile.com/crago-trespass-bill-not-a-corner-crossing-measure/

The Joint Judiciary committee then worked to improve the language in the interim prior to the 2023 session. Luckily, they heard our concerns as hunters and anglers, and tightened the language for trespass to mean physically stepping on land. This also helps game wardens apprehend trespassers, whereas in the past they've had to call the sheriff.

As hunters and anglers, we shouldn't condone trespassing. It was well-stated at an interim session that trespassers may as well be considered poachers for their disregard of laws and regulations. https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/1...wardens-ok-to-issue-hunting-trespass-tickets/

Let's consider the long-term impacts of this new law signed by Governor Gordon in terms of corner crossing. It extends an olive branch to private land owners with the message that we want to respect their property rights. Equally, we will want our property rights to public lands access respected when the time comes for formalizing corner crossing.

Today, Wyofile published an excellent article summarizing the efforts of public land access rights this past 2023 legislative session. As hunters and anglers, we're well-situated for the coming fights for corner crossing access! https://wyofile.com/hunters-pan-legislative-inaction-call-for-citizen-response-on-corner-crossing/

 

[f16jack]

We need to understand how this legislation evolved from Barry Crago's introduction in the 2022 session to the 2023 session to fully appreciate how SF056 (now law) helped us hunters with public land access.

In the 2022 session, Crago originally introduced language that specified 'pass through' public lands. That language could have meant swinging a leg over a corner, or even floating a boat over the surface of private land! Luckily the bill was tabled for fleshing out with the committee. Details on the 2022 debate here: https://wyofile.com/crago-trespass-bill-not-a-corner-crossing-measure/

The Joint Judiciary committee then worked to improve the language in the interim prior to the 2023 session. Luckily, they heard our concerns as hunters and anglers, and tightened the language for trespass to mean physically stepping on land. This also helps game wardens apprehend trespassers, whereas in the past they've had to call the sheriff.

As hunters and anglers, we shouldn't condone trespassing. It was well-stated at an interim session that trespassers may as well be considered poachers for their disregard of laws and regulations. https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/1...wardens-ok-to-issue-hunting-trespass-tickets/

Let's consider the long-term impacts of this new law signed by Governor Gordon in terms of corner crossing. It extends an olive branch to private land owners with the message that we want to respect their property rights. Equally, we will want our property rights to public lands access respected when the time comes for formalizing corner crossing.

Today, Wyofile published an excellent article summarizing the efforts of public land access rights this past 2023 legislative session. As hunters and anglers, we're well-situated for the coming fights for corner crossing access! https://wyofile.com/hunters-pan-legislative-inaction-call-for-citizen-response-on-corner-crossing/

Thanks for the update.

 

[Iowafarmer]

Anyone noticed the piece of legislation introduced that would finally settle Corner Crossing? I'm not going to get my hopes up until a vote passes it but it is a step in the right direction. I've linked to the text below.

SF0056

Well I’m not a lawyer so does that make corner crossing legal or illegal doesn’t seem right they can block access to public land

 

[drdrop]

Well I’m not a lawyer so does that make corner crossing legal or illegal doesn’t seem right they can block access to public land

I'm not a lawyer either but in summary, there are two separate types of laws relevant to this issue. In the criminal case, the hunters were found not guilty by jury in Carbon County, WY. The civil trial, where Eshelman is suing the Missouri Four for 7 million dollars in 'damages' by violating his precious airspace will be heard by a federal judge this summer. Recent news is really good. The judge said that the purported 'damages' are irrelevant to the issue at hand. https://wyofile.com/corner-crossing-judge-agent-opinion-on-ranch-value-irrelevant/ . "We" can win this!

 

[LostArra]

We need to understand how this legislation evolved from Barry Crago's introduction in the 2022 session to the 2023 session to fully appreciate how SF056 (now law) helped us hunters with public land access.

In the 2022 session, Crago originally introduced language that specified 'pass through' public lands. That language could have meant swinging a leg over a corner, or even floating a boat over the surface of private land! Luckily the bill was tabled for fleshing out with the committee. Details on the 2022 debate here: https://wyofile.com/crago-trespass-bill-not-a-corner-crossing-measure/

The Joint Judiciary committee then worked to improve the language in the interim prior to the 2023 session. Luckily, they heard our concerns as hunters and anglers, and tightened the language for trespass to mean physically stepping on land. This also helps game wardens apprehend trespassers, whereas in the past they've had to call the sheriff.

As hunters and anglers, we shouldn't condone trespassing. It was well-stated at an interim session that trespassers may as well be considered poachers for their disregard of laws and regulations. https://cowboystatedaily.com/2022/1...wardens-ok-to-issue-hunting-trespass-tickets/

Let's consider the long-term impacts of this new law signed by Governor Gordon in terms of corner crossing. It extends an olive branch to private land owners with the message that we want to respect their property rights. Equally, we will want our property rights to public lands access respected when the time comes for formalizing corner crossing.

Today, Wyofile published an excellent a

rticle summarizing the efforts of public land access rights this past 2023 legislative session. As hunters and anglers, we're well-situated for the coming fights for corner crossing access! https://wyofile.com/hunters-pan-legislative-inaction-call-for-citizen-response-on-corner-crossing/

Didn't Crago introduce a bill to allow physical force to remove trespassers?

I'm not sure I would trust Mr Crago's judgement on any serious matter.

Bill would allow ‘physical force’ to ‘terminate’ suspected trespass - WyoFile

Senate set to review measure that would justify landowners or agents who use force to stop what they believe is a crime of trespass.

wyofile.com

 

[drdrop]

Didn't Crago introduce a bill to allow physical force to remove trespassers?

I'm not sure I would trust Mr Crago's judgement on any serious matter.

Bill would allow ‘physical force’ to ‘terminate’ suspected trespass - WyoFile

Senate set to review measure that would justify landowners or agents who use force to stop what they believe is a crime of trespass.

wyofile.com

Yes, he's a crafty one. I've learned it's important to look at bill cosponsors.
Luckily it didn't become law. Here's the story: That bill sailed through the WY House. My friend spoke to his representative after the fact, who voted yes. They felt stupid for doing so because all situations presented on the floor only brought up situations of private business owners or churches trying to remove problematic people. Nobody brought up how this may apply to hunting.


Luckily, Wyoming hunters and anglers mobilized and targeted the next step in the process, the Senate Travel, Rec, & Wildlife committee. Hearing those perspectives shut that bill down. https://wyofile.com/senators-kill-physical-force-trespass-termination-bill/

Thank you Senators Gierau, Ellis, and Jones!

"Sens. Mike Gierau (D-Jackson), Affie Ellis (R-Cheyenne) and Stacy Jones (R-Rock Springs) out-voted supporting Sens. Wendy Schuler (R-Evanston) and Fred Baldwin (R-Kemmerer) on the Travel, Recreation Wildlife & Cultural Resources panel Thursday."

 

[f16jack]

The bills at the state level may become moot if this is settled at the federal level. That is one of the reasons Cape et al successfully petitioned to have their case moved to federal court.
Many states have laws that don't comply with Federal guidance, and by challenging them in the District court system we can get them overturned.
I'm still of the belief that turning simple trespass (with no intent to hunt private land) into a hunting violation is an anti-hunting proposition. Simple trespass is already illegal, and there are penalties associated. This law seems to be less about protecting landowner rights (which they already have), and more about punishing hunters.
What happens if I corner cross just to go camping, with no tag or rifle. Should the game warden cite me for breaking this new law? No. He can't. Because it is an anti hunting law, not an anti trespassing law.

 

[drdrop]

You make some good points, and let's hope that a federal law enables corner crossing. That's why WY legislators are hesitant to work on anything related to corner crossing in the interim. We need to see how this federal civil trial shakes out.

One minor clarification - the WY statute corner crossing 'loophole' from the Attorney General's 2004 that you previously referenced is specific to hunters and anglers. The loophole isn't there for folks that are not pursuing wildlife.

I listened to testimony by G&F law enforcement to the Joint Judiciary committee back in November 2022. They expressed frustration that they could observe trespass, but not do anything about it. I believe anything that helps law enforcement officers better enforce the law is a win. Granted, we're fortunate to live in a nation where laws are generally reasonable. Different story if say, we lived in Russia. Coming from the privilege of growing up hunting on private property, I understand what it feels like to have folks trespass on your land to hunt. It doesn't feel right.

 

[LostArra]

You make some good points, and let's hope that a federal law enables corner crossing. That's why WY legislators are hesitant to work on anything related to corner crossing in the interim. We need to see how this federal civil trial shakes out.

Isn't there the possibility that nothing gets shaken out regarding corner crossing? Could the judge just rule on the "damages", yea or nay, and leave it at that?

 

[drdrop]

Isn't there the possibility that nothing gets shaken out regarding corner crossing? Could the judge just rule on the "damages", yea or nay, and leave it at that?

Luckily, the judge recently said that the damages are irrelevant.

But you make a good point that this could become protracted litigation. Hopefully there's a lawyer Rokslider that can correct anything I state that may be off - but here's how I understand it:
Let's say that Judge Skavdahl in the Federal District of Wyoming rules in the favor of the hunters. Then that will apply to making corner crossing legal in the whole state. Presumably, greedy half billionaire Eshelmann will then appeal, and it will go to a higher court with farther reaching consequences. That would be ideal for making corner crossing legal widespread.

We're likely going to need to work with state legislatures on what corner crossing could look like. For now, let's sit back and see how this civil case shakes out.

 

[f16jack]

You make some good points, and let's hope that a federal law enables corner crossing. That's why WY legislators are hesitant to work on anything related to corner crossing in the interim. We need to see how this federal civil trial shakes out.

One minor clarification - the WY statute corner crossing 'loophole' from the Attorney General's 2004 that you previously referenced is specific to hunters and anglers. The loophole isn't there for folks that are not pursuing wildlife.

I listened to testimony by G&F law enforcement to the Joint Judiciary committee back in November 2022. They expressed frustration that they could observe trespass, but not do anything about it. I believe anything that helps law enforcement officers better enforce the law is a win. Granted, we're fortunate to live in a nation where laws are generally reasonable. Different story if say, we lived in Russia. Coming from the privilege of growing up hunting on private property, I understand what it feels like to have folks trespass on your land to hunt. It doesn't feel right.

Thanks for the note. The "loophole" you refer to simply recognized that simple trespass with no intent to hunt was not a hunting violation. The court case was not related to corner crossing, even though it applied to it also. It was a guy who drove on an ungated private road to hunt the public behind. The court found, properly, that this was not a hunting violation, but rather a trespass violation. As such game wardens had no authority to enforce.
This new law moves this case of simple trespass back into the game warden's area, as if you had committed a hunting violation.
This would be a pro hunting law if it also stated that it was legal for anyone to pass through the airspace over the property.

Some years after that court case I mistakenly, at night, drove on a private road to access public. I didn't know that in Wyoming, when you see a sign on your road that says "end of public maintenance" that it really means "this is now a private road." So we parked our camper in a big swath of public and went to sleep. Shortly after dawn the game warden dropped by. Very pleasant guy. He asked me if it was legal for me to hunt here. I replied with, "that depends where here is." He response was "Well, if you're asking that, you're probably in the wrong place." I then produced my map and my GPS and clearly showed that I was in the middle of a huge stretch of public land. He then said, "Yes, but how did you get here?" To which I replied "right here on this road." He said it was a private road, and he would have to ask us to leave.
I had an option at that point. I could have pointed out that I was not guilty of any hunting violations, and that he had no authority under Wyoming law to ask me to leave. I even had the Atty. Gen's opinion with me in my folder.
I chose the better path. I said, no prob, and we simply relocated to another access point for that public land (a small 200' section that accidentally crossed the public road).
He was a great guy and we got to know the warden and the landowner during the week we were there. The landowner even had us reloctate onto his land for convenience and safety. We had lunch daily with him and the warden. Great guys.

 

[wyosteve]

Here's the problem I see with HB 147. It only applies if the landowner posts public land with the INTENT to prevent the taking of wildlife. My .02 is the 'intent' and 'taking of wildlife' portions are going to be very difficult to prove. I see landowners saying, "I posted it to keep those trash dumping hikers from coming in!" So, no violation there even though the sign is up!

 

[f16jack]

Isn't there the possibility that nothing gets shaken out regarding corner crossing? Could the judge just rule on the "damages", yea or nay, and leave it at that?

Damages only apply if a guilty verdict is found. If not guilty of breaking the law then it is a whole another kettle of fish.

 

[drdrop]

Thanks for the note. The "loophole" you refer to simply recognized that simple trespass with no intent to hunt was not a hunting violation. The court case was not related to corner crossing, even though it applied to it also. It was a guy who drove on an ungated private road to hunt the public behind. The court found, properly, that this was not a hunting violation, but rather a trespass violation. As such game wardens had no authority to enforce.
This new law moves this case of simple trespass back into the game warden's area, as if you had committed a hunting violation.
This would be a pro hunting law if it also stated that it was legal for anyone to pass through the airspace over the property.

Some years after that court case I mistakenly, at night, drove on a private road to access public. I didn't know that in Wyoming, when you see a sign on your road that says "end of public maintenance" that it really means "this is now a private road." So we parked our camper in a big swath of public and went to sleep. Shortly after dawn the game warden dropped by. Very pleasant guy. He asked me if it was legal for me to hunt here. I replied with, "that depends where here is." He response was "Well, if you're asking that, you're probably in the wrong place." I then produced my map and my GPS and clearly showed that I was in the middle of a huge stretch of public land. He then said, "Yes, but how did you get here?" To which I replied "right here on this road." He said it was a private road, and he would have to ask us to leave.
I had an option at that point. I could have pointed out that I was not guilty of any hunting violations, and that he had no authority under Wyoming law to ask me to leave. I even had the Atty. Gen's opinion with me in my folder.
I chose the better path. I said, no prob, and we simply relocated to another access point for that public land (a small 200' section that accidentally crossed the public road).
He was a great guy and we got to know the warden and the landowner during the week we were there. The landowner even had us reloctate onto his land for convenience and safety. We had lunch daily with him and the warden. Great guys.

Thanks for clarifying! I wish more landowners were as reasonable as the one you encountered, but it also sounds like you're a pretty reasonable guy. Seems prudent to have obliged with the warden in the long run.

 

[drdrop]

Here's the problem I see with HB 147. It only applies if the landowner posts public land with the INTENT to prevent the taking of wildlife. My .02 is the 'intent' and 'taking of wildlife' portions are going to be very difficult to prove. I see landowners saying, "I posted it to keep those trash dumping hikers from coming in!" So, no violation there even though the sign is up!

That's a good point, especially if there are nefarious folks that aren't landowners. The cases I've heard about, and that were brought up in committee, all related to specific bad-acting landowners. Also look up the no trespassing signs that Eshelmann posted at "his" corner!! Just remember you got to first report it to the local law enforcement. Then they are required to give the landowner their first and only warning. If that sign re-appears they're going to be seeing a hefty fine.

This was a pretty popular bill that only had one no vote in the house. In general, let's chalk it up for a win on access.