Would you stay in an air bnb with a non-vented propane heater?

[Geewhiz]

Kind of a weird question I suppose. My folks wanted to do a little bit of a family get together so they rented an air bnb for us all to stay at. They keep the forced air heat on low but the supplemental heat source (if we want it above 60) is a non vented propane insert. Maybe Im way off here but it seams kinda weird that it’s not vented and it appears to be designed in such a way that it’s not intended to be vented. Carbon monoxide is a byproduct of combustion and since it doesn’t have an exhaust vent there would be CO accumulation inside the building correct?

I’m a bit hesitant to leave the thing on overnight.

 

[jmez]

Take a portable battery powered CO monitor.

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[Mike Islander]

Ventless 30,000 btu gas fireplace logs are common. Unless drastically broken, propane burners don't produce significant CO.

Gas stove tops can put out 40,000 btu with 4 burners on, and many folks wouldn't think twice about leaving the burners on to add some heat to a house if necessary.

 

[Geewhiz]

Maybe I’m just overthinking it. Thanks for the input. There’s been enough talk on here about buddy heaters and other heat sources that require venting that it makes me a bit nervous.

 

[Archer86]

As long as it has been taken care of and is fairly new they are equipped with a oxygen depletion switch that will shut the unit down if oxygen levels get to low. If it's super old it won't have that.

 

[jmez]

Oxygen depletion switches and CO are two different things.

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[Mtns2hunt]

Bump

 

[rayporter]

i do the same in my house. it ends up being the primary heat source.
the CO detector has never went off. [yes i check it]

 

[TaperPin]

Wow - that seems weird. Combustion is combustion. I picked up a small battery powered co detector from Home Depot that we can take on trips for situations like this, and gives piece of mind when the power goes out and weird heat sources are used.

The bad thing about even low amounts of co are headaches and you feel like crap. Winter construction sites are famous for unvented heat sources and there is a limit to how much a person can take.

Last year I felt bad for a couple who were killed in their camper when using a small propane heater.

How are unvented inserts any different? I don’t understand how these heaters are even allowed as a real thing, but Home Depot has dozens of models listed.

Here’s a common sense safety recommendation from one source:

Ventless Fireplace Safety | Fire and Rescue

Fairfax County, Virginia - Ventless Fireplace Safety

www.fairfaxcounty.gov

 

[Jon Boy]

Why do they keep the forced air on low? Some Airbnb hosts make me shake my head lol


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[triglet40]

Non vented propane heat source is about all my grandparents ever had growing up. I’m assuming you are talking about the three or 5 brick burners on the wall? If so wouldn’t bother me a bit.


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[Archer86]

Oxygen depletion switches and CO are two different things.

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Oxygen depletion Switch are used on ventfree fireplace. co displaces oxygen in the room and the oxygen gets below a certian oxygen level the flame on the pilot will go out and so will the main burner. no more co producedif the main burner is off. You would likely smell the aldehydes that are typical produced along with co before that happens

 

[bakcountry61]

Kind of a weird question I suppose. My folks wanted to do a little bit of a family get together so they rented an air bnb for us all to stay at. They keep the forced air heat on low but the supplemental heat source (if we want it above 60) is a non vented propane insert. Maybe Im way off here but it seams kinda weird that it’s not vented and it appears to be designed in such a way that it’s not intended to be vented. Carbon monoxide is a byproduct of combustion and since it doesn’t have an exhaust vent there would be CO accumulation inside the building correct?

I’m a bit hesitant to leave the thing on overnight.

Crack a window or two

 

[DayBreaker]

Kinda mixed feelings on this one... I used to feel good about bringing my little battery CO monitor with when hunting out of a trailer. It started going off in the night (propane heater was running) and my buddy and my brother didn't even Crack an eyelid or wake up when I opened the door to let fresh air in. Kind of creeped me out knowing not everyone wakes up to the beeping!

 

[Geewhiz]

Well, for anyone wondering, I’m still alive. For my own sanity I won’t be leaving it on over night. Thanks for the feedback. Still just seams weird though.

 

[Marbles]

Oxygen depletion Switch are used on ventfree fireplace. co displaces oxygen in the room and the oxygen gets below a certian oxygen level the flame on the pilot will go out and so will the main burner. no more co producedif the main burner is off. You would likely smell the aldehydes that are typical produced along with co before that happens

No.

Carbon monoxide is a toxic substance that will kill you, even if the atmosphere has 50% oxygen. This is because CO binds to hemoglobin more strongly than oxygen. Though due to chemistry (Le Chatelier's principle), higher O2 concentrations will speed up the washout of CO. CO concentrations are measured in PPM, and greater than 101 PPM is immediately dangerous (safe level for 8 hours is 9 PPM).

CO is a byproduct of incomplete combustion. A clean burn of a hydrocarbon (such as propane) produces CO2 and H2O. The O2 in CO2, and the O in H2O come from the atmosphere, so a clean burn, that does not produce CO can deplete oxygen, below 19.5% O2 is considered unsafe. Earth's atmosphere is only 21% O2.

An immediately dangerous level of CO is 0.01%, by the time an O2 sensor shut off due to CO replacing O2 everyone would be dead. CO2 starts becoming problematic at concentrations of 0.2% (2000 PPM), but below 0.5% (5000 PPM) is considered safe for 8 hours.

A CO detector cannot do the job of an oxygen sensor, and an oxygen sensor cannot do the job of a CO detector.

 

[Archer86]

A oxygen depletion sensor is not a replacement for a co detector it is factory installed in a vent free fireplace that works when the oxygen is deplete.

in the burner compart of the stove when the oxygen is depleted to below a set level it will shut every thing off, the pilot will pull away from the thermocoulple and everything will stop not a room mounted o2 sensor. So co should not build up in the room. For a flame to burn Efficiently and not produce co there has to be enough oxygen if not you will get incomplete combustion and produce co

I have literally held a CGI WITH A CO SENSOR in front of a ventfree fireplace that was producing high amounts of co and the ods switch eventually shut off the equipment. Will co still build up in the room yes but the level at the equipment vs free air are much different.

 

[Tod osier]

No.

Carbon monoxide is a toxic substance that will kill you, even if the atmosphere has 50% oxygen. This is because CO binds to hemoglobin more strongly than oxygen. Though due to chemistry (Le Chatelier's principle), higher O2 concentrations will speed up the washout of CO. CO concentrations are measured in PPM, and greater than 101 PPM is immediately dangerous (safe level for 8 hours is 9 PPM).

CO is a byproduct of incomplete combustion. A clean burn of a hydrocarbon (such as propane) produces CO2 and H2O. The O2 in CO2, and the O in H2O come from the atmosphere, so a clean burn, that does not produce CO can deplete oxygen, below 19.5% O2 is considered unsafe. Earth's atmosphere is only 21% O2.

An immediately dangerous level of CO is 0.01%, by the time an O2 sensor shut off due to CO replacing O2 everyone would be dead. CO2 starts becoming problematic at concentrations of 0.2% (2000 PPM), but below 0.5% (5000 PPM) is considered safe for 8 hours.

A CO detector cannot do the job of an oxygen sensor, and an oxygen sensor cannot do the job of a CO detector.

I think you are missing the point in the response you made to @Archer86. The way ventless that I know of is safety controlled is in an O2 sensor, it is designed to shut the unit down if the amount of O2 gets low enough to transition from producing CO2 to start producing CO. Your biology/chemistry was all correct, CO2 is the product of combustion unless O2 gets low than CO is produced. The unit shuts off before that transition occurs, that is what the O2 sensor is doing.

There are a million of these units, they are a standard design. I wouldn't even consider not using one. A CO detector would be an addition, but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Tod osier]

Last year I felt bad for a couple who were killed in their camper when using a small propane heater.

How are unvented inserts any different? I don’t understand how these heaters are even allowed as a real thing, but Home Depot has dozens of models listed.

A camper is small and tight enough to use up O2 so that that CO is produced (see below), not so much in a house which is big and not as tight. They also have a safety in that if O2 levels get too low that they shut off. That pilot light on a Mr. Heater portable Buddy is part of the safety switch, when O2 levels get low the pilot light gets low enough so that the thermocouple on the propane supply shuts off.

You said combustion is combustion, but that isn't 100% true. Burning with an abundance of O2 produced CO2, which is harmless. Burning when O2 is limited produces CO, which is deadly.

 

[camping1601]

I have a ventless heater in my basement workshop and it's never even registered on my digital Co detector. Also have used a buddy heater in a small camper with no co detected. They definitely ad moisture to the room, consume oxygen, and I feel overall reduce air quality.