Wolves to be removed from the ESA in 60 Days with clause that will limit Judicial Review

[alpinecrick]

Contrary to the common viewpoint on this forum, I don’t hate having wolves on the landscape. I do hate how environmentalist groups have weaponized the ESA and continually moved the recovery objective goalposts because they cannot stand to see wolves or grizzlies hunted. It should be celebrated as a victory to have management of wolves and grizzlies handed over to state wildlife agencies.

I’m also very pro feral horse hunting as well. I’m not a big fan of Boebert so maybe she can put it on her list next even if it is political suicide.

Damn, I agree with what you say.!

Wolves in Colorado need be classified as big game and when their numbers reach a sustainable population they should be hunted.

Horses were hunted in my part of the country until the Wild Horse Act was passed.

I wonder what wild horse tastes like…..?

 

[RojoGrande]

Boebert bill to remove gray wolf from endangered species list passes the House

This is the second time the bill to delist the gray wolf has passed the House.

www.cpr.org

Boebert proposed a similar measure last year that passed the house and failed in the senate.
Remains to been if this helps anything. If wolves are removed from ESA and federal protection, management falls to the states.

Colorado would lose restrictions of 10-J that limits where Colorado can source wolves and CPW would be able to proceed with reintroduction as they see fit.

If the landscape changes it would be easier to delist and manage populations at the state level.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Contrary to the common viewpoint on this forum, I don’t hate having wolves on the landscape. I do hate how environmentalist groups have weaponized the ESA and continually moved the recovery objective goalposts because they cannot stand to see wolves or grizzlies hunted. It should be celebrated as a victory to have management of wolves and grizzlies handed over to state wildlife agencies.

I’m also very pro feral horse hunting as well. I’m not a big fan of Boebert so maybe she can put it on her list next even if it is political suicide.

I cant hate them for being a creature of this planet. What I hate is their "God" given untouchable status created by the Polis Administration and fellow supporters. The false narrative of the ecosystem "fixer" has been debunked and even if it were true, wolves were not placed in the correct location to make a difference. Let the ranchers protect their livestock from predators and I guarantee the uproar would be magnitudes lower. Their hands are tied and powerless, that's why they are pissed.

If the liberals in Denver really wanted wolves to "fix" the ecosystem, they would have pushed for a cooperative release in RMNP and Estes Park where hunting pressure is non existent. Somehow our below target ungulate populations in Grand County "need" wolves to fix them. Then you look over at the elk zoo of RMNP or Estes and scratch your head.

 

[mlevimadden]

I cant hate them for being a creature of this planet. What I hate is their "God" given untouchable status created by the Polis Administration and fellow supporters. The false narrative of the ecosystem "fixer" has been debunked and even if it were true, wolves were not placed in the correct location to make a difference. Let the ranchers protect their livestock from predators and I guarantee the uproar would be magnitudes lower. Their hands are tied and powerless, that's why they are pissed.

If the liberals in Denver really wanted wolves to "fix" the ecosystem, they would have pushed for a cooperative release in RMNP and Estes Park where hunting pressure is non existent. Somehow our below target ungulate populations in Grand County "need" wolves to fix them. Then you look over at the elk zoo of RMNP or Estes and scratch your head.

We're aligned on all points, and I could not agree more with your post. Just to clarify, I voted NO on prop 114, voted NO on prop 127, have donated to CRWM, and encouraged non-hunting friends and family members in CO to vote NO against both propositions. I support wolves on the landscape because I think it's the right thing to do to restore native wildlife we have extirpated.

I only support having them on the landscape, if they will be managed by state wildlife agencies, treated like every other native wildlife species, and if we're going to be honest about the trade-offs of having them (reduced non-res elk tag funding, livestock depredation costs, impacts to ungulate populations, etc.). Like you said with their "untouchable" status given by Polis and Marlon, and the inability of the pro-wolf crowd to separate logic from emotion, I was heavily against Prop 114. It was destined to be a train wreck

Prop 114 and the resulting reintroduction has been an absolute sh*t show. I truly feel for the lowly pee-ons at CPW having this forced on them as well as all the affected ranchers in the area. It's the perfect example of why ballot box biology should not exist. No one benefits when wildlife is managed by emotion and feelings instead of logic and science.

In my exchanges with pro-wolf crowd, it seems like they are the most extreme form of virtue-signaling progressives. They are unable to refute any logical arguments I make about the trade-offs of having wolves on the landscape, how delisting from the ESA and reaching recovery objectives are a good thing, and they always seem to revert to the argument of humans should be uninvolved from the natural world and "let nature run it's course". But they also have no argument for plenty of species going extinct before humans were present on the landscape and when nature was allowed to run it's course. Their argument/stance is just that they hold the moral high ground and are better than you because they would never kill a wild animal or wolf, even though they have probably never donated a dollar to actual native wildlife conservation in their lives. I even got in a previous argument with Marlon on facebook about the wolf reintroduction where he solely blamed livestock owners for the budget problem and took no ownership or fault on his end.

Sorry for the rant, it's just frustrating for me that we can't have more intact native megafauna on the landscape because of one side's inability to use logical thought when it comes to cute and cuddly wolves and grizzlies. I'm even more jaded living in CO these days where they seem to be attacking my way of life and passions on all sides.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I wonder what wild horse tastes like…..?

The first people to arrive in North America thought they tasted so good that they ate them all.

PS - a few years back there was a scandal in Italy because one of the most popular brands of “beef” lasagna was actually made with old horses. No one could tell the difference until someone investigated the processing plant.

 

[ReaptheHeat]

We're aligned on all points, and I could not agree more with your post. Just to clarify, I voted NO on prop 114, voted NO on prop 127, have donated to CRWM, and encouraged non-hunting friends and family members in CO to vote NO against both propositions. I support wolves on the landscape because I think it's the right thing to do to restore native wildlife we have extirpated.

I only support having them on the landscape, if they will be managed by state wildlife agencies, treated like every other native wildlife species, and if we're going to be honest about the trade-offs of having them (reduced non-res elk tag funding, livestock depredation costs, impacts to ungulate populations, etc.). Like you said with their "untouchable" status given by Polis and Marlon, and the inability of the pro-wolf crowd to separate logic from emotion, I was heavily against Prop 114. It was destined to be a train wreck

Prop 114 and the resulting reintroduction has been an absolute sh*t show. I truly feel for the lowly pee-ons at CPW having this forced on them as well as all the affected ranchers in the area. It's the perfect example of why ballot box biology should not exist. No one benefits when wildlife is managed by emotion and feelings instead of logic and science.

In my exchanges with pro-wolf crowd, it seems like they are the most extreme form of virtue-signaling progressives. They are unable to refute any logical arguments I make about the trade-offs of having wolves on the landscape, how delisting from the ESA and reaching recovery objectives are a good thing, and they always seem to revert to the argument of humans should be uninvolved from the natural world and "let nature run it's course". But they also have no argument for plenty of species going extinct before humans were present on the landscape and when nature was allowed to run it's course. Their argument/stance is just that they hold the moral high ground and are better than you because they would never kill a wild animal or wolf, even though they have probably never donated a dollar to actual native wildlife conservation in their lives. I even got in a previous argument with Marlon on facebook about the wolf reintroduction where he solely blamed livestock owners for the budget problem and took no ownership or fault on his end.

Sorry for the rant, it's just frustrating for me that we can't have more intact native megafauna on the landscape because of one side's inability to use logical thought when it comes to cute and cuddly wolves and grizzlies. I'm even more jaded living in CO these days where they seem to be attacking my way of life and passions on all sides.

Not to tangent the conversation, but the Front Range would not exist in it's current state without man altering nature significantly. Much more significantly than most people can fathom. I find it ironic how people living in a concrete jungle tell others the ecosystem needs "fixed"

Ask any of these pro wolf Front Rangers where their water comes from, which is at a detriment to the Colorado River and Arkansas River basins. Measurable direct harm to the ecosystem. Heck Chimney Hollow Reservoir was being built during all this. To make matters worse, the wolves were dropped at the headwaters. How does that make sense?

 

[robby denning]

Got the HOWL email on this and contacted my senators. Both are republicans but I they still need to hear how many of us are out here.