Witnessed a poach.

[wytx]

If the fence is more than 30!feet off the road would it still be an issue? You could negate a lot of land if the road extends to the first fence...

Lots of Highways and Interstates have fences more than 30 ft from the road edge, the land is part of the right of way and illegal to shoot from or across or along.

 

[Marbles]

People should abide by the law, unless the law demands immorality. I don't see any way to argue that the law demands unethical action in this case. Simply thinking a rule is stupid is not adequate justification.

People have become such entitled, sniveling punks that they expect others to condone their unlawful actions and get mad at those who point out the unlawfulness of those actions. Sad to read arguments I listened to from druggies and criminals while working in a jail posted on a hunting forum. Obey the rules and you don't have to worry about "snitches" reporting unlawful actions and getting hunting closed down in an area. It is disregard for rules (not reporting of that disregard) that gives ammunition to those who want to end hunting. By policing ourselves we defuse that ammunition.

 

[Rich M]

People should abide by the law, unless the law demands immorality. I don't see any way to argue that the law demands unethical action in this case. Simply thinking a rule is stupid is not adequate justification.

People have become such entitled, sniveling punks that they expect others to condone their unlawful actions and get mad at those who point out the unlawfulness of those actions. Sad to read arguments I listened to from druggies and criminals while working in a jail posted on a hunting forum. Obey the rules and you don't have to worry about "snitches" reporting unlawful actions and getting hunting closed down in an area. It is disregard for rules (not reporting of that disregard) that gives ammunition to those who want to end hunting. By policing ourselves we defuse that ammunition.

To police your fellow hunters as opposed to just going hunting and following the rules, believing in the concept that the other guys are decent and trying to follow the rules too? Really?

Life is pretty simple - you "Mind Your Own Business" and let others mind theirs. This has moral implications. It aint your or my job to monitor others and worry about every little thing they do. Decent folks don't do that.

Big picture here - we're on the internet and the internet police are out there pointing out anything everyone ever did that was "wrong" and ignoring their own actions. Sorry if the majority of folks don't seem to agree that we should police each other for pitiful little things.

Sure, we report real crimes - assault, robbery, drunk driving, murder, actual poaching of illegal animals, and leave the little nitpicky stuff alone.

 

[WCB]

To police your fellow hunters as opposed to just going hunting and following the rules, believing in the concept that the other guys are decent and trying to follow the rules too? Really?

Life is pretty simple - you "Mind Your Own Business" and let others mind theirs. This has moral implications. It aint your or my job to monitor others and worry about every little thing they do. Decent folks don't do that.

Big picture here - we're on the internet and the internet police are out there pointing out anything everyone ever did that was "wrong" and ignoring their own actions. Sorry if the majority of folks don't seem to agree that we should police each other for pitiful little things.

Sure, we report real crimes - assault, robbery, drunk driving, murder, actual poaching of illegal animals, and leave the little nitpicky stuff alone.

I agree with this. If guys are blatantly shooting over limits...shooting across the hood from the road, leaving animals they shot, driving cross country where they are not supposed to I'll give Game and Fish a jingle. However, I ran into multiple guys sleeping in there vehicles on state land in WY on opener basically sitting on bucks. I just drove to the next spot. Is it against the law...yep am I going to bother the G&F officer and send him the location of 7 vehicles doing this...no. I might mention it to them in passing "hey you know your not supposed to right?". If I policed every violation I saw while hunting I would almost never have time to hunt....

Hey that guy loaded his gun before leaving the right of way.
Hey that guy is parking in a ditch can't do that.
Hey I saw a picture with your deer and you didn't have your vest on.
Hey I saw a picture and don't see a tag on that buck what's the story?
Hey I heard you shoot 3 minutes before shooting light.
Hey you why are you carrying 4 birds in your vest your limit is three...doen't matter your buddy with you only has 1 in his your limit is 3.
Hey you guys shot 5 ducks out of that last flock...who shot what duck you know you can't party hunt.
Hey I saw you guys riding on the tailgate with your guns uncased.
Hey, hey , hey

 

[Marbles]

To police your fellow hunters as opposed to just going hunting and following the rules, believing in the concept that the other guys are decent and trying to follow the rules too? Really?

Life is pretty simple - you "Mind Your Own Business" and let others mind theirs. This has moral implications. It aint your or my job to monitor others and worry about every little thing they do. Decent folks don't do that.

Big picture here - we're on the internet and the internet police are out there pointing out anything everyone ever did that was "wrong" and ignoring their own actions. Sorry if the majority of folks don't seem to agree that we should police each other for pitiful little things.

Sure, we report real crimes - assault, robbery, drunk driving, murder, actual poaching of illegal animals, and leave the little nitpicky stuff alone.

Fish and Game and hunters are on the same side. The use vs. them is the argument that "hunters are a bunch of sniveling little snitches" you made earlier. In all areas of society, if you break a rule where you have no reasonable expectation of privacy, be an adult and take the consequences on the chin rather than whining.

When you chose not to "'Mind Your Own Business' and let others mind theirs" by chastising those who condemn unlawful actions, you showed how far from simple that principle actually is.

There is a balance that must be struck. The Fourth Amendment addresses this balance and there is a large body of law built around it. A simple explanation is that no one has a right to just dig for things you have done wrong, however if they come across it while doing what they are allowed to do then they have a right to address it. Like most simple explanations, this is not perfect. Interestingly enough, hunting is one of the primary areas where this does not apply in regards to law enforcement. A game warden can check your equipment without reasonable cause. There is good reason for this, however both legally (and I would argue ethically) this only applies to law enforcement that is specifically tasked with this, such as game wardens.

In short, I'm not going to try and police people, however if someone openly breaks a rule in front of me it is then my discretion on how to handle that. Of course this takes place within a complex web of competing rights along with the technicalities of the law (i.e. it would be unlawful and wrong if I chose to assault them for dropping a cigarette butt on the trail). While I personally don't report very many violations I observe, and strongly condemn busy bodies who self appoint themselves to the role of LE, I also support someone's right to report illegal activity they observe while going about their business.

Everything that the law defines as a crime is a "real crime." A better argument is serious crimes or crimes that endanger others.

People using LE to in the way you discussed in an earlier post is wrong, in most jurisdictions it is illegal, and if proven carries consequences for making a false report. There is a difference between good faith reporting of actions one believe to be unlawful and perjuring ones self to settle a score. Unfortunately it is very hard to prove what someone did or did not know when they made a report and it is rarely prosecuted even when both a false statement and malicious intent can be proven.

However, your argument that making an illegal shot by shooting from the road way is justified because it leads to a clean kill is irresponsible. Many laws are specifically intended to insure that hunting is more than just killing animals. You might as well argue that breaking Alaska law and using a helicopter to hunt is ok because it leads to meat on the ground or that illegal bating is ok as it makes a clean kill easier or that doping should be allowed in sports because it leads to winning. Such arguments completely miss the point of the law.

Big deal. He was off the road and out of the traffic, muzzle was on private or public and facing away from the road when it went off - not endangering anyone (which is the primary reason for the rule).

Hunters sure have become a bunch of sniveling little snitches.

Don't forget to call highway patrol on everyone that's speeding too.

I was hoping you wouldn't take the post personally - it was about the way folks treat things these days more than anything. It makes an us & them concept with other hunters.

Had a guy call LEO on me couple years ago on a duck hunt - he didn't like me setting up where I was (over 200 yds away and in a diff flight path) and how I accessed the spot (not thru his setup) - their biggest guy came over to rant and rave while shining a spotlight in our faces so we wouldn't recognize him (He's a fireman who's in love with his truck). So they are all pissed off over nothing more than us being there. Funny thing was that they were shooting 5 minutes before legal time (times are a big thing with duck hunting). Yet they used LEO to "punish" us with a cavity search back at the ramp. LOL! I pull the boat in with a 77 and an 80 yr old in there and the LEOs were very nice - asked for licenses, if we got birds, and how our day went. We all got along fine - no complaints, it was a great day, thanks for checking us kind of thing.

Why didn't I call LEO on them? If they were a little more blatant in their disregard for the laws, sure, but not for 5 minutes early - they know the risk of having a Federal agent watching them and it isn't my place to police the marsh/woods/roads for minor stuff - now drunk driving, obviously way over limit, etc are real issues and deserve a call.

Plus, I do volunteer work at the refuge and know that if folks complain and such, they make changes like removing hunt areas, reducing hunt opportunities, stuff like that. All cause some folks whine and complain if things aren't perfect for them.

That's what I see - folks being whiny and nit-picky, us vs them kind of stuff. That's what is being promoted online these days - have em arrested if they don't act just like "you" think they should. Don't know if you have kids but if you do and take em on a long distance drive, put em both in the back seat and you'll see what many online hunters sound like. Most guys in the field are decent.

It's my responsibility to know what I'm doing and where I'm at as opposed to worrying about others all the time.

Did you stop and talk to the guy after he shot the antelope? - ask him who owns the land and if he thought you could get permission (sly way of seeing if he's got access) and if he needs help loading up or getting a picture. Shooting 100 or 200 yards off a fence post means dead antelope and no tracking - especially the guys who know what they are doing and how to shoot.

That's all.

 

[wytx]

So now we are not "decent folks" if we turn someone in ?
Your morals and mine are way different.

 

[Rich M]

The OP accused the guy of poaching - he has no proof. They manage to chalk up the alleged shooting position as a crime. Then comes the "hang him" talk. I'm saying that it wasn't a big deal.

You said you don't report every little thing you see and from that I can tell you that we agree on most stuff. We're just nitpicking each other.

So now we are not "decent folks" if we turn someone in ?
Your morals and mine are way different.

If you are gonna turn someone in for shooting off a fence along the side of the road somewhere out in the middle of nowhere - we sure do have different morals.

 

[wytx]

Yep we do.
The illegal shooting position is a crime in Wyoming, that is a fact.
Would I have called the GW, no I would have said something to him. Anybody that knows me knows I would have.
Just saying, what game crime is petty enough we just ignore it ? What is the threshold for which crimes are report able or not ? For me the entirety of the situation would determine if a GW was called or not.

Anyway, discussion without getting locked. See we're still civil .

 

[brettdunn7]

Yep we do.
The illegal shooting position is a crime in Wyoming, that is a fact.
Would I have called the GW, no I would have said something to him. Anybody that knows me knows I would have.
Just saying, what game crime is petty enough we just ignore it ? What is the threshold for which crimes are report able or not ? For me the entirety of the situation would determine if a GW was called or not.

Anyway, discussion without getting locked. See we're still civil .

So you NEVER speed, or change lanes without blinker, or use blinker when making a turn (any turn), or walk across the rd outside of a crosswalk, etc. you get the point.


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[Erict]

I didn't see anything from the OP stating that a shot was fired. The "elements of the offense" require:

1. a shot,
2. fired from, across or along a public road.

No shot = no violation.

"5. Don’t shoot from a public road. It is illegal to shoot a firearm from, across or along a public road. A public road is any road that is open to vehicular traffic to the public. The road surface, the area between fences on a fenced public road or highway and the area 30 feet perpendicular to the road surface on unfenced roads is considered the public road. Two-track trails on public land are not considered public roads for this purpose. "

 

[30338]

I always check to make sure folks in my hunting party have signed their licenses. I give a warning the first time, but always call the law for second offenses. Its a violation to not sign it and it needs to be enforced. I refuse to look past while members of my hunting party trample game laws like unsigned licenses.

 

[Sled]

The other nine can be seen here:

Hunters: Avoid these 10 Common Violations

wgfd.wyo.gov

ClearCreek

i learned something here. i had no idea you had to carry proof of hunters education while hunting in wyoming. in my state you can't buy the license without having proof and after that it is electronically attached to your hunter / ID number

 

[browning2480]

Let me throw my 2 cents in here. I just got back from Wyoming. If I had spent my time calling LE on those who were doing the wrong things or stopping to give lectures, I wouldn’t have had time to hunt. Of course we tagged out as a group in two days, filling 9 tags, so I guess we could have just drove around and reported/lectured people. Then we would have to drive around town and report all the speeders, jaywalkers and other degenerate people that won’t follow all the laws. Wouldn’t want to just discriminate on hunters.

 

[Bighorner]

I think we can all agree Wyoming is a reckless state with no regard to safety based on this one observation of dubious credit. It would be in the best interest of all non-residents to stay away as to avoid the unnecessary exposure to questionable events at vague locations. But that's just my opinion. I wish you all a very successful October.

 

[Short Track]

I love Wyoming. I can drive around a ranch, spot a deer. Jump out of the truck, load up, lean on the hood & shoot with a nice solid warm rest. Then drive over & pick up my game 100% legit. Can't do that at home !

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I see all kinds of weird stuff while performing ADC work on cattle ranches and now I just record the events and provide em to the property owner. I would have driven by so I got both shooter & license plate on video.

 

[Short Track]

With all the video surveillance available today, dash cams, cell phones, etc. I'd never do anything questionable. You know it's being recorded somewhere.

 

[Fatcamp]

i learned something here. i had no idea you had to carry proof of hunters education while hunting in wyoming. in my state you can't buy the license without having proof and after that it is electronically attached to your hunter / ID number

Same here. Still a Karen thread, but I learned something.

 

[jmez]

They don't, or haven't checked me for hunter safety card. It's in my bow case but I don't carry it with me. Hunted WY the last three years, had my license checked every year and that is all they asked for. Had elk checked twice and they didn't ask. Three different wardens.

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[Jardo]

Fence posts make a good solid rest when you forgot your shooting sticks.

You didn’t see anything illegal. You have to fill in a lot of blanks that you don’t know the answer to to jump to that conclusion. this is a big ole nothing burger.


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