Winchester Staball 6.5 for .243

[EastHumboldt]

Just got an 8 lb jug. S posed to burn about like 4350. Any experience out there.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Since nobody had any info on this I will answer my own question. I found some load charts and built some cartridges using hornady 100 grain BTSP, Federal 210 primers, and new Remington brass. components being hella scarce and expensive I just built two copies each in 1/2 grain increments from 39.5 gr to listed max at 42 gr. I was just looking to get the projectile into the 2900 FPS range without pressure signs, because I want to sort of mimic my 3006 ballistics. Here are my results using a magnetospeed sporter. Not pretending this is a statistically significant ladder

edit: this was shot out of a browning xbolt... last years model, don’t know the twist rate.

grains Velocities

39.5. 2639 2595
40.0. 2657. 2657
40.5. 2769. 2691
41.0. 2750. 2735
41.5. 2858. 2817
42.0. 2780. 2877

No pressure signs. Did some reading and people are saying ball powders like a full case, which in this case is about 43 gr. So I worked up to 43 by .2 increments

42.2. 2815
42.4. 2824
42.6. 2884
42.8 2793
43. 2837

Ill post more later. Mama wants to eat dinner.

 

[EastHumboldt]

So the velocity is nothing to write home about, but acceptable. And I have eight pounds of it.

BTW it works better in my 06. Pushes a 165 gr BTSP over 2900 FPS.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Question if anybody is even watching this... i didn’t really prep the new brass. I measured the cases to make sure they were the right length, did a light inside bevel of the necks is all. Then I measured the powder in with a lee cheapo balance beam and set the bullets. I noticed they went in very snug and I’m thinking neck tension is not equal from cartridge to cartridge. Do you think that’s why my velocities were so varied?

 

[JLane330]

I'm interested in your findings with this powder as I picked up an 8# jug a couple months ago, hoping to use it for my 6.5CM and possibly 7-08. I have many more magnum primers than regular LRP handy, and was considering using those. I've read that ball powders work better with hotter primers...not sure if that's true or not. I hadn't read about full cases, so that's interesting.

What primers are you using?

 

[MThuntr]

Question if anybody is even watching this... i didn’t really prep the new brass. I measured the cases to make sure they were the right length, did a light inside bevel of the necks is all. Then I measured the powder in with a lee cheapo balance beam and set the bullets. I noticed they went in very snug and I’m thinking neck tension is not equal from cartridge to cartridge. Do you think that’s why my velocities were so varied?

Did you sized the brass before starting? Did you measure neck thickness?

I know guys use the Lee balance scales but I personally think they're garbage...even if you use them perfectly they are only accurate to 2/10 grain. Get yourself a higher quality balance scale...avoid the want to buy a cheap electronic scale.

 

[JLane330]

I did not measure the neck thickness. I bought some once-fired brass from a member here, and did a FL resize, trimmed them to size, then deburred and prepped as I normally do. I have not primed the cases yet (that's the next step).
As for scale, I use a RCBS 505. I'll throw a load a little light then trickle the rest in on the scale.

 

[EastHumboldt]

JL if you look close you’ll see that mthuntr was responding to my question about case prep (or almost total lack of in this case)

I was assuming new unfired brass would be to spec. So I just checked the length, chamfered the inside of the neck and stuffed it with powder and a bullet. no I didn’t size, i built two rounds and they chambered fine so i carried on. I’m prepping some more unfired cases today, and they are getting the full treatment... FL sized, trimmed, necks chamfered inside and out.

Mthuntr, Clear up neck thickness please... is that the thickness of the case wall, or the inside diameter of the neck. I have no way of doing anything about it if the wall is too thick.

ill post some tonite on my 3006 results

so what’s the best quality balance scale out there? I bought the lee because it was available And i was familiar with their brand.

 

[JLane330]

JL if you look close you’ll see that mthuntr was responding to my question about case prep (or almost total lack of in this case)

Sure enough, I completely missed that. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[MThuntr]

Unfired brass case necks can be out of round in shipping which may be causing most of your issues since you are forcing some bullets in while others could be loose. The shoulders and main body of the case should be good to go. My preference (it's an OCD thing to control as many variables as possible) is to fireform brass prior to developing loads though that's probably not necessary especially as supplies are getting tough to find.

Yes neck thickness is the measurement of the neck wall thickness...probably not necessary concern at the moment. I'd strongly recommend getting a pair of calipers while replacing that scale.

I know guys are claiming the Lee scale will work and there are YouTube videos of how guys are making them work best so maybe start with sizing all your brass first...then if the numbers aren't working check out a new scale because I'd hate for you to spend another $100 if you can make things work.

The gold standard for balance scales is RCBS. Though a Lyman or Hornady should be good to0. Some are popping up online.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Yeah pretty much anything related to making a gun go bang is hard to find right now. I’ll look into an RCBS scale. I have several dial calipers. Use em a lot in guitar work.

forgot to answer JLs question. Using federal 210 large rifle primers. I did see an article awhile back where they had some data to support the idea that in many cases magnum primers did not help for non magnum loads, and in fact created some inconsistency.

 

[Rob5589]

The only time I haven't, at a minimum, run a mandrel through the necks if new brass was on the Norma I use currently. That stuff is super quality and packed to prevent damage. Even still, I measured a bunch before deciding to skip my usual routine.

Wide velocity spreads can be neck tension but more likely charge variances.

 

[EastHumboldt]

Thanks for the helpful input guys. Here’s the promised 3006 data. There’s not enough to be “statistically significant” but you can see a general trend. I’m building two different hunting loads. 165 gr and 150 gr BTSP. I’m looking to push the 165 at 2850-2900 FPS and the 150 at 3000 FPS. This will give me 1500+ ft/lbs of energy at 300 yards with either bullet weight. The lighter load is for my brother who has an old shoulder injury and is not as recoil tolerant as me. We’re both shooting tikka t3x weighing in at 7.5 lbs for my gun and 7.75 lbs for his. 1/11 barrel twist. These were all shot from my gun. This is all once fired federal brass.

30-06. Tikka t3x
165 grain Sierra game king. Max listed load 60.2
powder Velocities
57.0gr. 2725. 2730
57.5gr. 2727. 2721
58.0gr. 2769. 2787
58.5gr. 2788. 2785
59.0gr. 2833. 2831
59.5gr. 2830. 2871
60.0gr. 2885. 2881 2889. 2863

I had no pressure signs so built another series up to 61 grains by .2 increments

60.2gr. 2902
60.4gr. 2904
60.6gr. 2904
60.8gr. 2913
61.0gr. 2911

so my results look much more sensible and consistent than with the .243. I had a whole box (20) loaded to 60 grains and they grouped pretty well. I’ve since built another box to 60.5 grains and we’ll see how they shoot, and I’ll sample four of them to see if I’m getting consistent velocity. It looks like another 1/2 grain to 61 is not buying me any velocity.

30-06 tikka t3x
150 grain Sierra game king. Max listed load 64.2.? (I’m in bed and don’t wanna go check)

62.4gr. 3005
62.6gr. 2975
62.8gr. 2990
63.0gr. 3078
63.2gr. 3035

I think I’ll load a Box of these at 63 grains and see how they shoot and chrony. Post more when I have it this weekend.

 

[MThuntr]

The lighter load is for my brother who has an old shoulder injury and is not as recoil tolerant as me. We’re both shooting tikka t3x weighing in at 7.5 lbs for my gun and 7.75 lbs for his. 1/11 barrel twist. These were all shot from my gun.

Please tell me you're not using data from your rifle for his rifle. That's a good way to make a boom and end up missing fingers and going blind

 

[EastHumboldt]

I see what you are saying. actually the max listed load for Staball 6.5 is 68 grains of powder, which you can’t even fit in a 30-06 case. I wonder if that’s a typo? The case is about 3/8 shy of full with 63 grains, just perfect for seating a 150 grain bullet. But I’ll take your admonition to heart and run a string in his rifle at lower loads before I let him shoot the 63 grains.

edit just looked it up. Max load is listed as 63 for nosler 150 gr bullet. Not the first time I’ve looked like an idiot... but better that than wearing pieces of Finnish rifle parts. Note to self... don’t be an idiot...

Thank you mthuntr

 

[Rich M]

Thanks for posting this up. I'm just poking around online and find 8# jug available and wanted to see what it would do in .243 w 100 gr.

The results were less than stellar but not bad. 2800 fps beats not having powder to load with.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

I'm interested in your findings with this powder as I picked up an 8# jug a couple months ago, hoping to use it for my 6.5CM and possibly 7-08. I have many more magnum primers than regular LRP handy, and was considering using those. I've read that ball powders work better with hotter primers...not sure if that's true or not. I hadn't read about full cases, so that's interesting.

What primers are you using?

I appreciate this thread too @EastHumboldt. Seems like good powder to me and reasonably attainable these days. I will be trying it with a 30-06 for a friend in the near future, so this is really handy.

While I don't have as rigorous of a write up, I have gotten good results with 120gr BTs through a Tikka 7mm-08 with StaBall 6.5. As appears to be the case with ball powders, I had to get the load pretty hot before they started grouping (near max... I believe 53.0 grains). But it's shooting sub-MOA without too much trouble. I suspect it's moving pretty fast too. Recoil seems higher than the Varget load I was shooting, but I'll have to chrono it someday.

I've also heard that StaBall will move some of the bigger projectiles (150-160 grainers) well in a 7-08, but I haven't tried myself.

 

[david2duck]

Not sure on velocity yet as I forget my chrono but checking dope at 600 showed it being right around 2800. This load is over max but no pressure signs at all for my setup.


Kimber Hunter 7mm-08. Gun weighs 5lbs 12oz with a swfa 2.5-10 on it. That’s 49gr of Staball with 140gr Berger vld. Just over 1” for 5 shots. No info on velocity as I shot that group and went home to load more for testing at distance. I believe this load is right at max and no pressure signs. I tried 49.5gr and group open up a little with more vertical so I went back down to 49gr. Should have more data on velocity in a week or two.

 

[valleyforge.1777]

I use it for 270 Win because I am saving all my H4350 and IMR 4350 for some other day. No complaints in 270 Win with Staball 6.5 I can't say how it compares to the 4350's because I am saving those and have not loaded enough with them to get chrono data. Accuracy with Staball pretty decent.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I use it for 270 Win because I am saving all my H4350 and IMR 4350 for some other day. No complaints in 270 Win with Staball 6.5 I can't say how it compares to the 4350's because I am saving those and have not loaded enough with them to get chrono data. Accuracy with Staball pretty decent.

Interested in what you get for a velocity with StaBall vs IMR/H4350. StaBall shows 70-100 fps advantage across practical bullet weights vs the 4350's, as per Hodgdon data.