Widow Makers at Camp

[Ironman8]

As a former sawyer, I can say there are many hazards to think about and addressing "hazard" trees. Different species of trees have different characteristics when it comes to falling on their own. Dead, standing lodgepole are pretty stable trees in terms of not breaking mid tree. Most tend to fall by the stump and root system rotting out. Live lodgepoles are limber and many will break under a snow load with any type of wind.
The problem with a hand saw or even an axe, is the back cut. Once you have your face (undercut) cut out, you want a fast saw on the back cut. When you are down to that last little bit of holding wood, that's the danger zone.

Thanks. Most of the dead standing trees that I’m seeing out there are on the 6-8” diameter size that have fallen into another tree and were caught by the branches before it could fall completely over. I guess these are called snags.

Would you (or anyone else reading) be concerned with trying to clear these or are they not much of a threat?

I know it would stick in the back of my mind the whole trip if we didn’t clear those, but I guess there’s also the risk that we cut the tree off at the base and it still doesn’t dislodge and only becomes more of a fall risk later on. Kinda damned if you do, damned if you don’t if it doesn’t break free.

 

[Customweld]

Thanks. Most of the dead standing trees that I’m seeing out there are on the 6-8” diameter size that have fallen into another tree and were caught by the branches before it could fall completely over. I guess these are called snags.

Would you (or anyone else reading) be concerned with trying to clear these or are they not much of a threat?

I know it would stick in the back of my mind the whole trip if we didn’t clear those, but I guess there’s also the risk that we cut the tree off at the base and it still doesn’t dislodge and only becomes more of a fall risk later on. Kinda damned if you do, damned if you don’t if it doesn’t break free.

I would most certainly be concerned with trying to fall a tree that is hung up in the branches of another tree. I'm leery about getting under any tree that isn't free standing on it's own. Once dead trees (especially those smaller in diameter) are lodged in other trees, they can be tricky to get loose. Those smaller trees don't have much weight on the top end to work with.

 

[alecvg]

Had a big dead spruce fall through the middle of camp one night before ears ago, no one even heard it fall. We got lucky- I went in the next spring with a chainsaw and fell every dead tree within striking distance. Pain the the butt, but well worth the time

 

[Ironman8]

I would most certainly be concerned with trying to fall a tree that is hung up in the branches of another tree. I'm leery about getting under any tree that isn't free standing on it's own. Once dead trees (especially those smaller in diameter) are lodged in other trees, they can be tricky to get loose. Those smaller trees don't have much weight on the top end to work with.

So are you saying you would or wouldn’t try to fall those that are hung up in the branches of another tree?

 

[JD619er]

I know you'd probably have to change your sleep system but is hammock camping an option in the area? Maybe you could find a spot decently close that way.

 

[Customweld]

So are you saying you would or wouldn’t try to fall those that are hung up in the branches of another tree?

I probably wouldn't try falling them. If the trees are rotted off at the stump, can you use a Peavey to roll them out of the other trees? 6"-8" diameter logs are easy to maneuver with a Peavey.

 

[mtnbiker208]

I have gone in in june and used my chain saw to do some cutting. I have also used a hand saw close to the season. One year, i was hand cutting everything, telling my self to come back with the chain saw this weekend. I saw a nice 6x7 with its herd. I came back with the hand saw and kept the chain saw at home.
I did get the bull a couple of weeks later.

Now, lots of loggers have shot animals while sawing. happens all the time.

 

[GotDraw?]

I was waiting for this comment haha!

It’s steep and nasty to get into. 1100’ elevation change in less than 3/4 miles. We found this area at the end of our 2019 season and got into elk each day we were there, and went back and got my first bull in there last year. I’m hesitant to say it yet, but seems to be a honey hole (for now). Only took us 4 years to find a place like it lol.

Sooo WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU CAMP ANYWHERE NEAR THERE?
JL

 

[schwaf]

Ok Silky it is. Do you happen to know much about this other model Silky? It’s a little longer blade and reviews are really good. Or are you recommending the fixed handle for durability reasons?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001...crb_top?ie=UTF8#cm_cr_carousel_images_section

I've used the large folders as well, but didn't care for them at all. Fixed blade for ergonomics. The pistol grip is far more comfortable and efficient for cutting. The large folders are very awkward, especially with smaller pieces.

Whenever I pack a saw (almost always), but don't anticipate heavy duty use I bring a silky pocketboy 130. It's a little meaty considering it's overall size, but it's more effective than most saws twice it's length. It handles 6" diameter logs with relative ease and slips into any pocket. IMO the perfect combo for back country hand saws. Just remember to let the saw do the work and don't force too much pressure on the blade.

Amazon.com

 

[Marbles]

Falling an 18 inch diameter snag with a handsaw (even a Silky, which are amazing saws) sounds like a bad idea as that is a lot of time under the tree. If you have a spotter, and at least two exit routs, you could give it a try. Depending on how complex the situation, even a chainsaw is pretty iffy. I have left more than one saw in the cut to run like hell cutting twisted stuff after tornados. Some of it depends on your risk tolerance, now that I have kids mine is much lower than it use to be.

A curved Silky will cut faster, but will not give you the precision of a strait saw when it comes to face cuts and back cuts. My guess is that trying to cut it well put you at just as much, or more, risk than sleeping under it for a week if it is anything more than a simple face/back cut to drop it.

If you get a Silky, remember they are only intended to cut on the pull stroke, you can snap the blade trying to cut on the push stroke.

 

[Dust Rider]

Second what Customweld said about a peavey. A small choker and come a long to help. Snags are tough to break free with hand tools.

 

[schwaf]

Falling an 18 inch diameter snag with a handsaw (even a Silky, which are amazing saws) sounds like a bad idea as that is a lot of time under the tree. If you have a spotter, and at least two exit routs, you could give it a try. Depending on how complex the situation, even a chainsaw is pretty iffy. I have left more than one saw in the cut to run like hell cutting twisted stuff after tornados. Some of it depends on your risk tolerance, now that I have kids mine is much lower than it use to be.

A curved Silky will cut faster, but will not give you the precision of a strait saw when it comes to face cuts and back cuts. My guess is that trying to cut it well put you at just as much, or more, risk than sleeping under it for a week if it is anything more than a simple face/back cut to drop it.

If you get a Silky, remember they are only intended to cut on the pull stroke, you can snap the blade trying to cut on the push stroke.

True enough. I agree with everything you said. Knowing myself, I'm not qualified to cut down trees that are unpredictable and apt to kill me. Having fallen a 12" diameter tree once, I choose my battles carefully.

Edit: I've fallen plenty that would kill me in my sleep. I've only fallen one that would kill me awake with a hand saw. It's actually kinda horrifying watching massive trees fall.

 

[Marbles]

Made me think of this thread.

 

[Fatcamp]

An AR15 and a couple magazines of ammo would solve that problem quick. I wonder how many rounds per tree it would take.

 

[Fatcamp]

You laugh, but when we were kids we convinced our mom to let us buy a shotshell reloader. Holy cats we should have had more supervision! We chopped down many trees. Three 14 year olds with unlimited ammo is not a good combination.

 

[Marbles]

You laugh, but when we were kids we convinced our mom to let us buy a shotshell reloader. Holy cats we should have had more supervision! We chopped down many trees. Three 14 year olds with unlimited ammo is not a good combination.

I know a farmer who used an AK-47 to clear widowmakers and snags rather than get close to them. As a kid I put more than one tree on the ground with a 22lr. I laugh because it works and can be safer than a saw. Might mess up the hunting for a day or two though.

 

[Marbles]

Silky Zubat (professional arborist edition with extra large teeth), 330 mm long (13 inches). That cut took me 7 minutes and 2 seconds. The wood is spruce (frozen). Someone who had a better arm might could have done it in a little over 5 minutes. Probably less than a 30 second cut with a small chainsaw (I've never timed my chainsaw cuts).

The Silky is great though, tore through a 3 inch diameter piece in 18 seconds.