Why this Stupidity should matter to you.

[Hnthrdr]

There's at least three options. I'm not going to say you’re stupid but you're being closed minded if you can't think of more. One of the large things "wrong" with "liberals" is trust of the government. If one truly trusts government gun control is hard to see as a problem. Its definitely is a hard perspective for you or I to see from and may be wrong but evil or stupid doesn't fit. No civilization/government works without a fair amount of trust. I would argue there's examples in all of our lives where we wrongly trusted the government. I'm not willing to paint fellow Americans evil for potentially misplaced trust.

It seems like the blind trust only goes towards government they like. (I have had leftist friend go buy AR’s because Trump was elected… they still believe in gun bans are more guns laws…) I personally am pretty skeptical of all government, because like I stated before it is all enforced with the threat of violence at the end of the day. Yes western society has operated on trust but I would counter loads of governments and civilizations have been ruled by brutal violence we just haven’t witnessed it within our borders for 120-150 years or so. Western United States had some brutal civilizations before they were settled.

 

[North of 60]

Most of the people who voted for this are dependent on the government. We went from a nation that valued independence and knew that dependency was antithetical to liberty and self-governance to one where the federal and state governments are the largest employers.

It’s the logical result of having income taxes and “needing to justify them.” There’s a letter by FDR where he explicitly says that the result of his programs will be to make voters dependent on the party that provides the benefits.

Our elite education system has been broken for a long time and all it does now is turn out dependents.

Yep, and LBJ's great society just made it worse.

 

[Hnthrdr]

There's at least three options. I'm not going to say your stupid but you're being closed minded if you can't think of more. One of the large things "wrong" with "liberals" is trust of the government. If one truly trusts government gun control is hard to see as a problem. Its definitely is a hard perspective for you or I to see from and may be wrong but evil or stupid doesn't fit. No civilization/government works without a fair amount of trust. I would argue there's examples in all of our lives where we wrongly trusted the government. I'm not willing to paint fellow Americans evil for potentially misplaced trust.

Also we aren’t talking about liberal voters we are talking about politicians who are crafting laws and eroding or destroying freedoms, I’ll stand by evil or stupid/ naive. I’d wager they fall within the former, because I don’t think they are dumb they pander to their base and are power hungry and want any future resistance disarmed

 

[average]

Also we aren’t talking about liberal voters we are talking about politicians who are crafting laws and eroding or destroying freedoms, I’ll stand by evil or stupid/ naive. I’d wager they fall within the former, because I don’t think they are dumb they pander to their base and are power hungry and want any future resistance disarmed

I'll settle for naive or greedy. Its definitely a more nuanced discussion than the way it's generally approached here.

It seems like the blind trust only goes towards government they like. (I have had leftist friend go buy AR’s because Trump was elected… they still believe in gun bans are more guns laws…) I personally am pretty skeptical of all government, because like I stated before it is all enforced with the threat of violence at the end of the day. Yes western society has operated on trust but I would counter loads of governments and civilizations have been ruled by brutal violence we just haven’t witnessed it within our borders for 120-150 years or so. Western United States had some brutal civilizations before they were settled.

That's both sides. For the vocal minority politics seems to be like cheering for their favorite football team. Little matters besides winning. As long as their guy is in life is magically better. Neither has any interest in holding their own accountable.

I'm perfectly content living in the era of trust, we've romanticized violence to the point some seem to have a desire to live in a violent time. Someone here (on a different thread) had a pretty interesting post about idolizing violence, it was a thought provoking religious perspective.

 

[realunlucky]

This is exactly how these threads get locked by venturing way into the political weeds.

Stay focused on the gun control issues so we can keep the discussion going.

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[Hnthrdr]

I'll settle for naive or greedy. Its definitely a more nuanced discussion than the way it's generally approached here.



That's both sides. For the vocal minority politics seems to be like cheering for their favorite football team. Little matters besides winning. As long as their guy is in life is magically better. Neither has any interest in holding their own accountable.

I'm perfectly content living in the era of trust, we've romanticized violence to the point some seem to have a desire to live in a violent time. Someone here (on a different thread) had a pretty interesting post about idolizing violence, it was a thought provoking religious perspective.

I am by no means idolizing Or fetishizing violence. I lived it first hand in Afghanistan. I have a wife and several young daughters. Violence is the last thing I want to see in my community. I also know I want my daughters to have the right to defend themselves. Even in the U.S. I have seen far too much violence against women in my day to day work. I show up after the damage is done.

Our world of “peace” and “trust” is a pin head on the timeline of history. I hope it lasts… yet this small period of relative peace and stability is an anomaly, I’m not going to believe blindly that if I voluntarily surrender arms I will be taken care of. Hell we are largely ignored as long as we are obedient tax chattel

That being said I see the world for how it is, not how I want it to be. It is not 1950’s America anymore. We are more likely headed the way of Rhodesia or South Africa. I want the ability to defend my family and myself, currently only one side in Co is crushing my rights, but really I’d be pleased with far less gov at all levels. Because I don’t love government having the sole monopoly on violence. Here is some food for thought: when a population is armed there may be some tragedies from time to time, when only the government is armed there may be genocides from time to time

 

[One300wsm]

I am by no means idolizing Or fetishizing violence. I lived it first hand in Afghanistan. I have a wife and several young daughters. Violence is the last thing I want to see in my community. I also know I want my daughters to have the right to defend themselves. Even in the U.S. I have seen far too much violence against women in my day to day work. I show up after the damage is done.

Our world of “peace” and “trust” is a pin head on the timeline of history. I hope it lasts… yet this small period of relative peace and stability is an anomaly, I’m not going to believe blindly that if I voluntarily surrender arms I will be taken care of. Hell we are largely ignored as long as we are obedient tax chattel

That being said I see the world for how it is, not how I want it to be. It is not 1950’s America anymore. We are more likely headed the way of Rhodesia or South Africa. I want the ability to defend my family and myself, currently only one side in Co is crushing my rights, but really I’d be pleased with far less gov at all levels. Because I don’t love government having the sole monopoly on violence. Here is some food for thought: when a population is armed there may be some tragedies from time to time, when only the government is armed there may be genocides from time to time

Well said, and there’s only one side trying to disarm Virginia and one of them leading the charge isn’t even a natural born citizen. Which is preposterous in itself.

 

[dylanvb]

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

@Q_Sertorius I am very curious about your opinion seeing you practice law, would you say we are currently in a state of “lawfare”? We are seeing examples of a 2 tier justice system in a lot of issues both state and federally.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace"
Thomas Paine

@Q_Sertorius I am very curious about your opinion seeing you practice law, would you say we are currently in a state of “lawfare”? We are seeing examples of a 2 tier justice system in a lot of issues both state and federally.

The country has always had a two-tier justice system. It’s just a matter of which group is favored and which is getting screwed. And the rich have been and always will be better equipped to handle it. That’s not to justify the current system, but just an observation on the state of things.

The General Assembly exempting themselves from the requirements for weapons possession around their place of work is both hypocritical and logical. But what it mostly shows is their fear of common citizens. Which is logical when you go from treating them as equals in an equal society to seeing them as serfs to be taxed.

The income tax broke this country. It changed the paradigm from self-governance to “governed and government.”

“Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods.”
H.L. Mencken

 

[dylanvb]

The country has always had a two-tier justice system. It’s just a matter of which group is favored and which is getting screwed. And the rich have been and always will be better equipped to handle it. That’s not to justify the current system, but just an observation on the state of things.

The General Assembly exempting themselves from the requirements for weapons possession around their place of work is both hypocritical and logical. But what it mostly shows is their fear of common citizens. Which is logical when you go from treating them as equals in an equal society to seeing them as serfs to be taxed.

The income tax broke this country. It changed the paradigm from self-governance to “governed and government.”

“Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods.”
H.L. Mencken

Thank you for that sir. I appreciate your inputs on this forum.

 

[Captains1911]

If you define "lefties" as US Government, then I agree.

BS. This thread is about gun control, specifically in VA, where it is being passed almost 100% on party lines. It's not much different at the federal level. You can't give me a similar example of republicans cramming civil liberty violations down the throats of law-abiding citizens when they were in control of our state, because there isn't one. So don't give me that nonsense,.

 

[chanson_roland]

I'll just say this, as someone now living in VA, who also lived in CA when the ban kicked in there:

This is giving rise to the greatest surge in gun/ammo/magazine purchases in decades. It's also going to lead to the two-tier ownership that CA now has. Believe me, there are tons of off-the-books semiautos stashed away in CA, and only taken out and shot on private land, or on BLM land far from roads.

In VA, with its higher per capita gun ownership and military service history, it's going to be even more intense. I'm seeing people buying loads of stuff, not just ones and twos.

I think VA is going to become one of the most heavily armed states in the USA by the time July 1 rolls around.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

So refreshing to be on a forum where right leaning conservative post don't get you banned unlike hunttalk. There I said it.
Over there you are told to leave the political stuff alone. Only problem is the liberal post are tolerated but posting conservative thinking seems not to be tolerated as much. In my opinion keep ALL the political stuff out or let both sides freely post.

There is also 24 hour campfire. You really can't get banned for anything there. Here, you can get banned for goring the sacred drop test cow and the .223 big game cow.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I’d like to add one other thing to this thread: anyone pointing to “Sic Semper Tyrannis” or talking about “watering the tree of liberty” really needs to shut up and take real, peaceful action. Get out there and run for office. Become involved in organizing voters. Go swell the ranks of peaceful protests. Stop bloviating on the Internet and contributing to the division in our country.

I’ve studied our Civil War extensively (I have an MA focusing on Civil War and Reconstruction). The greatest mistake anyone in the United States ever made was starting a Civil War because they lost a split Presidential election when they controlled the judiciary and the legislature. They caused the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans and untold misery for others, while destroying their entire society in the process. And, whether you believe in their cause, even in the most palatable interpretation of their cause, they lost. So, before you start talking nonsense, consider that we still have a republic that can be saved peacefully.

“This country will be drenched in blood, and God only knows how it will end. It is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization! You people speak so lightly of war; you don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing!” - WT Sherman

I witnessed civil wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Sherman’s statement is as true now as it was then. And the technology of death and destruction is much greater than it was two centuries ago.

 

[dylanvb]

I'll just say this, as someone now living in VA, who also lived in CA when the ban kicked in there:

This is giving rise to the greatest surge in gun/ammo/magazine purchases in decades. It's also going to lead to the two-tier ownership that CA now has. Believe me, there are tons of off-the-books semiautos stashed away in CA, and only taken out and shot on private land, or on BLM land far from roads.

In VA, with its higher per capita gun ownership and military service history, it's going to be even more intense. I'm seeing people buying loads of stuff, not just ones and twos.

I think VA is going to become one of the most heavily armed states in the USA by the time July 1 rolls around.

Sometimes I feel like the politicians do this right after they bought stock in some of these gun companies lol
It’s happening in CO as well though, all the laws they are pushing has increased sales significantly. My buddy has bought 4 guns all in this new year.

 

[North of 60]

The main problem with liberal "gun control" is liberals blame weapons for the violence and liberals refuse to hold the thugs who perpetrate the violence responsible for the violence. You can't legislate good values.

For all on this forum who love to hunt/shoot regardless of affiliation with the political theater, the 2A needs protecting at the state and federal level.

 

[Captains1911]

The main problem with liberal "gun control" is liberals blame weapons for the violence and liberals refuse to hold the thugs who perpetrate the violence responsible for the violence. You can't legislate good values.

For all on this forum who love to hunt/shoot regardless of affiliation with the political theater, the 2A needs protecting at the state and federal level.

And to make matters worse, not only are they trying to strip lawful citizens of their 2A rights, but they are simultaneously trying to make life easier for violent felons. For all those here not familiar with what's going on in VA, or calling me a crazy conspiracy theorist, just go take a look at the legislative session we just had here in VA as a whole, and get back to me.

 

[wind gypsy]

Take off your tinfoil hat

Take off your blinders.

 

[One300wsm]

I'll just say this, as someone now living in VA, who also lived in CA when the ban kicked in there:

This is giving rise to the greatest surge in gun/ammo/magazine purchases in decades. It's also going to lead to the two-tier ownership that CA now has. Believe me, there are tons of off-the-books semiautos stashed away in CA, and only taken out and shot on private land, or on BLM land far from roads.

In VA, with its higher per capita gun ownership and military service history, it's going to be even more intense. I'm seeing people buying loads of stuff, not just ones and twos.

I think VA is going to become one of the most heavily armed states in the USA by the time July 1 rolls around.

West of the Blue Ridge Mountains are already heavily armed. The majority of us don’t trust our government regardless of who’s in control. But these people in charge now just took it to another level.

 

[One300wsm]

And to make matters worse, not only are they trying to strip lawful citizens of their 2A rights, but they are simultaneously trying to make life easier for violent felons. For all those here not familiar with what's going on in VA, or calling me a crazy conspiracy theorist, just go take a look at the legislative session we just had here in VA as a whole, and get back to me.

And it’s coming to a state near you, it’s not going to stop in Virginia so you better get prepared.