Why starting a fire in the rain wouldn't have saved me..

rcb2000

WKR
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
480
Location
Virginia
Between the Colorado hiker thread, and the fire in the rain thread, I think this is a good time to talk about what happened to me(45) and my Dad (70) this year on a hunt, and what I learned from it.
I'll try to keep it very short and concise.

It was an early season archery mule deer hunt in the Uintas in Utah. They are notorious for volatile weather, and we planned for that.
We started hiking in the morning, hoping to make it to our spike camp (6 miles away) by early afternoon, so we could be up glassing predetermined points the next day, which was the opener.
The weather was warm, probably mid 70's, some clouds in the sky. We were hiking in sun hoodies, but had rain gear, puffy's, etc in the packs.

The trail in was brutal to say the least, blowdowns, no marked trail matching Onx, so it was very slow going.
Throughout the day, it would start 'spitting' as we say out East, not raining really, but just enough moisture coming down that you could keep hiking in it, but not enough to merit putting on your rain gear, as you would likely sweat more than the moisture actually coming down.

As we got to about 6pm, it started raining lightly, we took some cover under some pines, and as it let up, we kept hiking. I knew we would not make it to the place we had planned on, but needed to at least get through the thick blowdown pines, to a better place to camp for the night, without fear of trees falling on you in the middle of the night. At about 7, my Dad said he needed to take a break and rest, as much as I wanted to keep pushing to a place for the night, I knew that if he asked to stop, he needed to stop, he's a tough guy and doesn't complain. The rain started to come down harder, and as I looked around us as the soaked logs and ground, I knew it was far from an ideal place to stop.

While debating in my head how long we should wait before we kept moving as the sun was slowly setting, and the temperatures were dropping (ultimately to 40 degrees), I looked over at my Dad huddled up under a pine out of the rain, and he was full on shivering.
I went into action mode, knowing that the clock was ticking to get him warm and dry.
I dropped my pack, ripped my 10'x10' tarp out, and got it set up into a simple A frame, hung on a Ridgeline between two trees, then guy-lined out to the ground, supported by trekking poles in the corners. I got his ground sheet out, blew up his pad, and told him to get in the bag with his clothes on. I got the stove out, boiled some water, and immediately made him hot chocolate, and made him drink it. I then made him a hot meal, that he shoveled down quickly.
30 minutes later he was feeling better, the shivering had stopped, and I felt we were in a better position.

The rain didn't stop all night, until 10 am the next morning, but we stayed dry and warm and were able to get up, get to our spike camp, and dry out the sleeping bags that day in the afternoon sun.

Here are some key takeaways from my perspective:
-A fire would have been possible to start, but very challenging to keep going, and would have gotten soaked collecting wood all night to keep it going. To be honest a fire never even came into my head as "this is what I should be doing right now".

-Keep your guy lines tied to your tarp, and be proficient at setting it up quickly in a variety of scenarios. I have used my tarp extensively, and can set it up half a dozen different ways very easily, BUT, in the stress of the moment and in pouring rain, I'll admit I was struggling to do the simplest task of tying a prussic loop.

-I ask myself if we should have used rain gear sooner, but in the moment, as I said, the precip was so light, until it wasn't,, and then it was too late.

-A tent would have been more ideal, and likely less fussy than a tarp. Luckily the rain wasn't coming down sideways, so the tarp was adequate. The 10 x size is the MINIMUM I would bring moving forward, any smaller would not be big enough for 2 ppl.

-He had a Zenbivy, which is amazing and comfortable, BUT, in a high stress moment, far too finicky to set up, I have a Western Mountaineering Badger that I thought was maybe overkill, but came in clutch in this moment, and would have been easier for him to just crawl into.



All in all, we learned a lot, and came out of it okay, but failure to act could have resulted in a very different outcome.
I never understood why survival experts always put "shelter" as a priority over water and then food, until now.
Exposure will kill you within minutes/hours, and it doesn't take a crazy storm to get you wet enough, coupled with 'chilly' temps, to get you there.
 
Thank you for sharing your experience, and how you reacted, and how it helped. Good info.
I've held off on posting about it, but learned so much, that I had to share it.
I really have to give a lot of credit to the Stone Glacier YouTube video on the "Rewarming Drill", I've watched it a few times, and in the moment I just went on autopilot, and it worked.
 
Between the Colorado hiker thread, and the fire in the rain thread, I think this is a good time to talk about what happened to me(45) and my Dad (70) this year on a hunt, and what I learned from it.
I'll try to keep it very short and concise.

It was an early season archery mule deer hunt in the Uintas in Utah. They are notorious for volatile weather, and we planned for that.
We started hiking in the morning, hoping to make it to our spike camp (6 miles away) by early afternoon, so we could be up glassing predetermined points the next day, which was the opener.
The weather was warm, probably mid 70's, some clouds in the sky. We were hiking in sun hoodies, but had rain gear, puffy's, etc in the packs.

The trail in was brutal to say the least, blowdowns, no marked trail matching Onx, so it was very slow going.
Throughout the day, it would start 'spitting' as we say out East, not raining really, but just enough moisture coming down that you could keep hiking in it, but not enough to merit putting on your rain gear, as you would likely sweat more than the moisture actually coming down.

As we got to about 6pm, it started raining lightly, we took some cover under some pines, and as it let up, we kept hiking. I knew we would not make it to the place we had planned on, but needed to at least get through the thick blowdown pines, to a better place to camp for the night, without fear of trees falling on you in the middle of the night. At about 7, my Dad said he needed to take a break and rest, as much as I wanted to keep pushing to a place for the night, I knew that if he asked to stop, he needed to stop, he's a tough guy and doesn't complain. The rain started to come down harder, and as I looked around us as the soaked logs and ground, I knew it was far from an ideal place to stop.

While debating in my head how long we should wait before we kept moving as the sun was slowly setting, and the temperatures were dropping , I looked over at my Dad huddled up under a pine out of the rain, and he was full on shivering.
I went into action mode, knowing that the clock was ticking to get him warm and dry.
I dropped my pack, ripped my 10'x10' tarp out, and got it set up into a simple A frame, hung on a Ridgeline between two trees, then guy-lined out to the ground, supported by trekking poles in the corners. I got his ground sheet out, blew up his pad, and told him to get in the bag with his clothes on. I got the stove out, boiled some water, and immediately made him hot chocolate, and made him drink it. I then made him a hot meal, that he shoveled down quickly.
30 minutes later he was feeling better, the shivering had stopped, and I felt we were in a better position.

The rain didn't stop all night, until 10 am the next morning, but we stayed dry and warm and were able to get up, get to our spike camp, and dry out the sleeping bags that day in the afternoon sun.

Here are some key takeaways from my perspective:
-A fire would have been possible to start, but very challenging to keep going, and would have gotten soaked collecting wood all night to keep it going. To be honest a fire never even came into my head as "this is what I should be doing right now".

-Keep your guy lines tied to your tarp, and be proficient at setting it up quickly in a variety of scenarios. I have used my tarp extensively, and can set it up half a dozen different ways very easily, BUT, in the stress of the moment and in pouring rain, I'll admit I was struggling to do the simplest task of tying a prussic loop.

-I ask myself if we should have used rain gear sooner, but in the moment, as I said, the precip was so light, until it wasn't,, and then it was too late.

-A tent would have been more ideal, and likely less fussy than a tarp. Luckily the rain wasn't coming down sideways, so the tarp was adequate. The 10 x size is the MINIMUM I would bring moving forward, any smaller would not be big enough for 2 ppl.

-He had a Zenbivy, which is amazing and comfortable, BUT, in a high stress moment, far too finicky to set up, I have a Western Mountaineering Badger that I thought was maybe overkill, but came in clutch in this moment, and would have been easier for him to just crawl into.



All in all, we learned a lot, and came out of it okay, but failure to act could have resulted in a very different outcome.
I never understood why survival experts always put "shelter" as a priority over water and then food, until now.
Exposure will kill you within minutes/hours, and it doesn't take a crazy storm to get you wet enough, coupled with 'chilly' temps, to get you there.

Good stuff. And a great example of the value of both preparation and judgement. One without the other doesn't work, thanks for sharing.
 
Great story to share. And I appreciate you telling us about the "rewarming" video etc. I remember watching some videos about that. Pretty good training. Thanks.
 
You did good. Thanks for sharing that experience. I’ve got a lot to rethink, and your post helped a lot.
 
In the fire thread you mentioned, point was - If you can start a fire in the rain... never mind.

Thank god your alive, a light rain in the mid 70s sounds brutal.
Not sure it a one size fits all approach though.
 
In the fire thread you mentioned, point was - If you can start a fire in the rain... never mind.

Thank god your alive, a light rain in the mid 70s sounds brutal.
Not sure it a one size fits all approach though.
The light rain in the 70’s definitely wasn’t an issue, in fact that’s exactly my point, it gave us a false sense of security. We were thinking “eh, not bad, let’s just keep hiking and deal with it”.
The problem came when the sun started setting, and temps plummeted, everything was soaking wet from the accumulated moisture.
A fire wouldn’t have been useful considering it started raining harder at 7pm, and continued to 10 AM the next morning.
Setting up shelter, getting in the bags, and getting your core temp up via food and liquids was the best plan of action.
 
All useful information.

But sometimes temperatures do drop below that of your living room. What then?
Appreciate your comments, but I can see you’re either not comprehending what I wrote, or looking for an argument.
I can see how important it is to you to feel that you are right.
I’ll respect what decisions you feel are right, I’d only ask you give me the same level of respect.
 
Thanks for sharing. The more stories like this folks share, the more others can learn from unique situations. The idea of starting a fire has to be tempered with the conditions - not only the difficulty in heavy rain, but all the areas we hunt and fish that just don’t have much to burn. While outdoors, asking ourselves what we would do if something bad happened at the moment, is good to keep the brain engaged.

Not to sound cheap, but as a practical matter even if a fire is an option, burning holes in the synthetic gear of two people with pine embers is not my first choice if other gear can accomplish the same thing. The balance between gear weight and risk given the conditions is more clear the longer someone spends outdoors.

Hopefully people who haven’t tried it yet will spend the night with only what’s in their day pack, fire or not.
 
I appreciate everyone’s comments, I hope that this could be a useful lesson to anyone in the future.

Fire making is useful and fun stuff, and anyone should be able to do it a number of ways in the back country, practice it at home, until it becomes second nature.

Unfortunately, when temperatures drop to the 40’s and you have nonstop downpours, fire is probably not the best solution.

Hope you all stay safe and have a great season.
 
Great reminder! I also keep a light weight 8x10 tarp in my pack at all times. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve used it in NM, AZ and CO to stay dry, not even putting on my rain gear. Always keeping an eye on the weather. Whether on my InReach or the weather app if I have cell service. This year I had cell service so able to see the radar. Deployed my tarp half dozen times. When I see those clouds rolling over the top, I deploy the tarp before it starts raining. And when those sudden storms pop up, it comes out of the pack immediately. I have about 12’ of parachord on each corner, making it very quick, less than 5 minutes to get set up, and using trekking poles in strategic locations to prop and shed water as well as giving me head room. I always try and set the tarp as low to the ground as possible to prevent blowing rain from coming in. Ideally the tarp is very low in the back and slightly higher in the front. This pitch works best when on a slope allowing me to still see if there are any game out and about. If I don’t have anything to tie off too, tent stakes and or rocks work as well.
 
Appreciate your comments, but I can see you’re either not comprehending what I wrote, or looking for an argument.
I can see how important it is to you to feel that you are right.
I’ll respect what decisions you feel are right, I’d only ask you give me the same level of respect.
Comprehending?
I do, I witnessed a situation not much unlike yours back in the 90s.
It was winter, I was still asleep, completely unaware my kids were already up, and what they were doing.
Still in their pajamas, they just sat there like nothing was wrong, eating Froot loops, on the couch.
The temperature was probably 68 degrees, colder than your harrowing ordeal, yet like you, they kept their wits about them, and survived, all without starting a fire.

Even though lessons like ours, prove a fire is not always necessary, I don’t go around suggesting to not to be prepared for one, just in case.

And yes, I do carry a tarp. Kelty Noah tarp.
 
Between the Colorado hiker thread, and the fire in the rain thread, I think this is a good time to talk about what happened to me(45) and my Dad (70) this year on a hunt, and what I learned from it.
I'll try to keep it very short and concise.

It was an early season archery mule deer hunt in the Uintas in Utah. They are notorious for volatile weather, and we planned for that.
We started hiking in the morning, hoping to make it to our spike camp (6 miles away) by early afternoon, so we could be up glassing predetermined points the next day, which was the opener.
The weather was warm, probably mid 70's, some clouds in the sky. We were hiking in sun hoodies, but had rain gear, puffy's, etc in the packs.

The trail in was brutal to say the least, blowdowns, no marked trail matching Onx, so it was very slow going.
Throughout the day, it would start 'spitting' as we say out East, not raining really, but just enough moisture coming down that you could keep hiking in it, but not enough to merit putting on your rain gear, as you would likely sweat more than the moisture actually coming down.

As we got to about 6pm, it started raining lightly, we took some cover under some pines, and as it let up, we kept hiking. I knew we would not make it to the place we had planned on, but needed to at least get through the thick blowdown pines, to a better place to camp for the night, without fear of trees falling on you in the middle of the night. At about 7, my Dad said he needed to take a break and rest, as much as I wanted to keep pushing to a place for the night, I knew that if he asked to stop, he needed to stop, he's a tough guy and doesn't complain. The rain started to come down harder, and as I looked around us as the soaked logs and ground, I knew it was far from an ideal place to stop.

While debating in my head how long we should wait before we kept moving as the sun was slowly setting, and the temperatures were dropping (ultimately to 40 degrees), I looked over at my Dad huddled up under a pine out of the rain, and he was full on shivering.
I went into action mode, knowing that the clock was ticking to get him warm and dry.
I dropped my pack, ripped my 10'x10' tarp out, and got it set up into a simple A frame, hung on a Ridgeline between two trees, then guy-lined out to the ground, supported by trekking poles in the corners. I got his ground sheet out, blew up his pad, and told him to get in the bag with his clothes on. I got the stove out, boiled some water, and immediately made him hot chocolate, and made him drink it. I then made him a hot meal, that he shoveled down quickly.
30 minutes later he was feeling better, the shivering had stopped, and I felt we were in a better position.

The rain didn't stop all night, until 10 am the next morning, but we stayed dry and warm and were able to get up, get to our spike camp, and dry out the sleeping bags that day in the afternoon sun.

Here are some key takeaways from my perspective:
-A fire would have been possible to start, but very challenging to keep going, and would have gotten soaked collecting wood all night to keep it going. To be honest a fire never even came into my head as "this is what I should be doing right now".

-Keep your guy lines tied to your tarp, and be proficient at setting it up quickly in a variety of scenarios. I have used my tarp extensively, and can set it up half a dozen different ways very easily, BUT, in the stress of the moment and in pouring rain, I'll admit I was struggling to do the simplest task of tying a prussic loop.

-I ask myself if we should have used rain gear sooner, but in the moment, as I said, the precip was so light, until it wasn't,, and then it was too late.

-A tent would have been more ideal, and likely less fussy than a tarp. Luckily the rain wasn't coming down sideways, so the tarp was adequate. The 10 x size is the MINIMUM I would bring moving forward, any smaller would not be big enough for 2 ppl.

-He had a Zenbivy, which is amazing and comfortable, BUT, in a high stress moment, far too finicky to set up, I have a Western Mountaineering Badger that I thought was maybe overkill, but came in clutch in this moment, and would have been easier for him to just crawl into.



All in all, we learned a lot, and came out of it okay, but failure to act could have resulted in a very different outcome.
I never understood why survival experts always put "shelter" as a priority over water and then food, until now.
Exposure will kill you within minutes/hours, and it doesn't take a crazy storm to get you wet enough, coupled with 'chilly' temps, to get you there.
Great job keeping your cool in a difficult situation and looking out for your father. Thanks for sharing your experience and your insight.
 
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