Why spike only season/tags?

[Bar]

Land owners could solve the problem with high fences.

 

[Shrek]

Land owners could solve the problem with high fences.

Land owners could solve the problem by allowing access. I don't believe in forcing access but I don't think they should get any relief from the animals damage when they deny access either. If the elk bunch up on private land because the owners will not allow access then too bad their fences get trashed and their expensive cattle feed and graze gets eaten. I certainly don't want our game departments to encourage pay to play and the turning of hunting into a rich mans sport. I'm not 100% sure this is the case here but it's a common problem.

 

[realunlucky]

Cow tags are opportunity tags and utah way to increase hunter participation. Utah's number one problem is hunting is governed by politics and not science. Board members to not heed any advice from biologists.

 

[realunlucky]

This thread is getting side tracked from the original questions of why spike only tags

 

[Bar]

This thread is getting side tracked from the original questions of why spike only tags

It seems that question has been answered.

 

[realunlucky]

It seems that question has been answered.

Glad your curiosity has been satisfied

 

[Bar]

I wasn't curious about it. I didn't ask the question, but maintaining the proper bull/cow ratio seems to make sense. Asking the people in charge of handing out the tags would be the thing to do.

 

[realunlucky]

My guess is to keep the bull/cow ratio where they want it.

Oh I see you answered it right off, mystery solved. There might be more involved the just this.

 

[realunlucky]

Just so you know le units ( spike only units) are managed for age class bulls not bull to cow ratios.

 

[Bar]

Just so you know le units ( spike only units) are managed for age class bulls not bull to cow ratios.

So, you have the answer.

Sarcasm becomes you. You must practice a lot.

 

[sneaky]

Land owners could solve the problem by allowing access. I don't believe in forcing access but I don't think they should get any relief from the animals damage when they deny access either. If the elk bunch up on private land because the owners will not allow access then too bad their fences get trashed and their expensive cattle feed and graze gets eaten. I certainly don't want our game departments to encourage pay to play and the turning of hunting into a rich mans sport. I'm not 100% sure this is the case here but it's a common problem.

This very thing was a sticking point during the meetings. Trying to get them to allow access. They contend the cow hunters would mess with their high paying bull clients. There has to be a happy medium but right now the private landowners don't seem to all be on board. They were very combative at times with the biologists who did the aerial surveys. Thinking they were making the numbers up. Guess they'll just have to fly them along so they can count them themselves.

 

[Silentstalker]

So much bad information in this post I don't even know where to start. The guy I work for is on that committee, and I can tell you from getting first-hand information from him that cow numbers aren't down in those units. The hunting pressure is driving them onto the CWMU's where they aren't getting shot. CWMU owners are complaining about high cow numbers on their lands, but aren't allowing hunters in to shoot them. They are trying to get more cow tags issued for the CWMUs so as to create pressure on them to force some of them back onto the public ground. Aerial surveys have born this out, these aren't "estimates" these are freaking elk they have seen and counted. I know quite a few of the DNR guys and gals from doing deer trapping with them over this past winter and spring. We had some lengthy discussions on this very subject. 90% of the gun hunters won't, or don't, walk more than a couple hundred yards from the road. If they don't see them from the truck, they aren't there. That's sad, but it's true. Think of how many lazy hunters you know. Main reason they called for a drop in cow tags is to keep them from pushing onto the CWMUs where they aren't being hunted, not from a drastic drop in cow populations.

So sneaky, tell me what is the bad info in my post?

The part about there being no cows on the public land during hunting season? The part about bulls rutting in Sept all alone? The estimated counts? They did not fly this winter. That is straight from the biologists mouth.

I am not a rifle hunter, I am a bowhunter who spends 20-30 days on that unit every year and have since 2000. How many days per year over that time frame have you spent chasing elk on the wasatch? I can assure you things have changed drastically over the last few years.

I have spoken with 2 of the biologists during the committee mtgs. We did in fact discuss the possibility that the cows are hanging on the CWMU lands. The other very real possibility is that elk are migrating off other units and skewing the aerial counts they do. That is why they commissioned the radio collar study to track their whereabouts year round.

Its okay if you disagree, thats your perogative. Im not going to argue with someone over the internet the knows someone who went to a meeting.

 

[sneaky]

Well, considering he's on the committee and you went to a meeting then who has better info? By their own accounts from DNR they did fly this winter. Not sure why that's a conflict of info. From your post you made it sound as if every cow elk on the Wasatch has disappeared. I could produce email correspondence between DNR and committee members, but why should i? It's fine you spend 20-30 days a year on the Wasatch. We've spent more than that already. I could care less if you agree or disagree with me. We'll kill our bulls in a few weeks then move on. It's not mine, or your, fault, that people are too lazy to put in time or effort to find these elk that are there. Until the CWMU owners pitch in it isn't going to get any better.

 

[Silentstalker]

Apologies to the OP for derailing your thread.

I agree with sneaky that until we lighten the pressure on the cows and the CWMU's jump in things are not getting better.

Good luck to each of you on the hunts!

 

[PhotoHunter]

I hunted cows/spikes in Fishlake one year and saw some freakishly long spikes. I also thought the bulls with the best genetics will branch the first year and are never a spike.

 

[trdhunter]

On a positive note,(and to not sway post further)
a person can hunt spikes on a unit to learn the area and elk habits while they are applying for a LE tag. Once drawn, they now have experience on the unit. Or if they are not finding the quality of elk they want, cant hunt on other units to find one you like and put in for that area for LE.

 

[realunlucky]

On a positive note,(and to not sway post further)
a person can hunt spikes on a unit to learn the area and elk habits while they are applying for a LE tag. Once drawn, they now have experience on the unit. Or if they are not finding the quality of elk they want, cant hunt on other units to find one you like and put in for that area for LE.

Top tier units are putting out right around 100 tags combining archery any weapon and muzzle loader seasons. Divided in half that's 50 tags in the random draw that makes for some shifty odds. Plus side is almost a life time of spikes and knowing a unit really well

 

[Bob L.]

I put in for a spike only hunt in Oregon as my second choice, knowing that I wouldn't draw my first choice but would mostly likely get the under-subscribed spike tag and be able to hunt in a limited entry unit with good elk numbers while earning a point. I've seen plenty of mature bulls in this unit and my hunting mentor has put a couple on his wall. I'm happy to shoot a spike bull for the freezer; that's a lot of prime meat.

I am on the same page as you. I live in Oregon as well and the spike hunt offers a very good chance at filling the freezer compared to some of the other hunts Oregon offers.

 

[trdhunter]

Top tier units are putting out right around 100 tags combining archery any weapon and muzzle loader seasons. Divided in half that's 50 tags in the random draw that makes for some shifty odds. Plus side is almost a life time of spikes and knowing a unit really well

Unlucky-this is true, but there has to be some positive way to look at things. unfortunately there are two options spike only where hunters have opportunity to hunt, not necessarily harvest, or hunt the few any bull areas which are extremely overcrowded and in my experience, not any better odds of harvest.

 

[realunlucky]

When they sell the cake than let you lick the empty plate you can't stand back and glorify the baker. Glad you see the glass half full. Good luck this season