Why so much emphasis on super fast prone shots?

[Marshfly]

I just don't get it. I'm wracking my brain about the times when I needed to get off a prone shot fast and seconds mattered and I can't think of any. Not one. Any shot that might have needed urgency was while stalking and was offhand or supported from a tree or something nearby.

Are people not working on finding and getting within shot range of animals that are totally unaware of their presence? Are people just seeing moving animals at a range where a prone shot is necessary and hoping they have enough time to get a rushed shot off? At a moving animal? Because if that animal is not moving and unaware of your presence, you have time to not rush.

What am I missing here? I honestly don't see it.

 

[SDHNTR]

Are people not working on finding and getting within shot range of animals that are totally unaware of their presence?

No, they are not. Because they took an online class and are now well equipped to shoot 600 yards.

 

[intunegp]

There have been times for me, hunting in sage/juniper brush country that timing was crucial...the type of scrubby brush over rolling hills where every step the animal takes could put it out of sight and might never be seen again. See something grazing along, takes a couple steps and it's gone, five minutes later it pops out again a couple hundred yards further away, and a couple seconds later it is gone again.

That said, I don't put a huge emphasis on training to setup a shot as fast as possible, just always keep in mind that slow is smooth and smooth is fast. If I can't get setup for a good shot from a solid position I don't shoot and try to work to somewhere that might present a better opportunity based on where the animal was last seen and its heading.

 

[huntnful]

I think it’s just a potential worst case scenario to prepare for, and if you can get proficient at it, you’re better off.

But I don’t use it as a baseline for all (or any) of my decisions really. At least not for western mountain hunting. Truly rushed shots are few and far between for any of the hunts I’ve done. And the rushed shot scenarios were either standing off hand or kneeling at close range.

 

[Marshfly]

I think it’s just a potential worst case scenario to prepare for, and if you can get proficient at it, you’re better off.

But I don’t use it as a baseline for all (or any) of my decisions really. At least not for western mountain hunting. Truly rushed shots are few and far between for any of the hunts I’ve done. And the rushed shot scenarios were either standing off hand or kneeling at close range.

That has been my experience as well. Standing or kneeling for fast shots. Never prone. Matter of fact, of 8 big game animals my family took with rifles last year, not a single one could have been shot prone. Out to about 400 yards. More and more I'm wondering where all of these prone shots are. I simply don't have those opportunities often.

3 shots last year had to be done sort of quickly and of those one from a tall bipod kneeling, one from a tripod kneeling, and one standing. None of those over 150 yards. All pronghorn.

Dropping to the ground to lay quickly when there's probably cactus, protruding rocks, sticks, whatever waiting for me just doesn't make any sense. Especially when my expensive binos are attached to my chest.

 

[huntnful]

That has been my experience as well. Standing or kneeling for fast shots. Never prone. Matter of fact, of 8 big game animals my family took with rifles last year, not a single one could have been shot prone. Out to about 400 yards. More and more I'm wondering where all of these prone shots are. I simply don't have those opportunities often.

3 shots last year had to be done sort of quickly and of those one from a tall bipod kneeling, one from a tripod kneeling, and one standing. None of those over 150 yards. All pronghorn.

Dropping to the ground to lay quickly when there's probably cactus, protruding rocks, sticks, whatever waiting for me just doesn't make any sense. Especially when my expensive binos are attached to my chest.

I kill most animals prone up in the mountains. But a kneeling height bipod has been a great addition to have on multiple occasions now also!

 

[Braaap]

I’ve had the quick prone shot once on a deer hunt. My buddy and I were cruising some rim rock slowly at first light and rounded a corner and caught 3 deer moving up a draw 300 yards away almost at the top. My buddy ranged it and I dropped my pack and set up for the shot. It was a flat spot pretty devoid of brush. It worked great. Seated supported or kneeling would have worked as well but I just happened to be in a good spot to lay prone. After doing the Shoot2hunt course I feel confident I could have shot that buck using several other positions but at the time I always looked for prone if I could.

 

[WCB]

so you are climbing a ridge or just about to pop over...an animal busts out disappearing you run the 50 yards up to the top. For argument sake the ridge you are on is open with nothing to rest on..eastern MT, Western Dakotas, WY. Animal runs out 250-300 yards stops looks back ready to make a break around a corner or into cover....why would I shoot off hand or off my knees when I can lay down and shoot off my bipod? Animal is aware you are there but standing looking at you. How much time do you have? What do you considered rushed?

I have shot more animals prone out west than standing or kneeling. While guiding hunts I would say 60% plus were prone in all sorts of terrain...30% were sitting/kneeling and the rest were quickish standing with a tree or fence post for rest.

If you hunt heavy timber a lot...yeah probably not a ton of opportunity...but I don't know of many hunts where I couldn't have in theory shot an animal prone....

 

[KyleR1985]

I thought the emphasis on timed (rushed shots) in practice was because it’s an efficient way to replicate pressure. Fast target acquisition and faster proficiency seem like side effects of the real gains - operating under pressure.

I reckon we could also set our targets next to our trucks…

 

[Jason Snyder]

Learning to get into position faster allows for more time for the shot. A prone shot doesn’t have to be a long one. You might be shooting in forest canopy where prone is the best option.

Honestly, most of my shots are sitting over my pack. But, I killed a whitetail buck one year, prone shot and I had a very short windows time to kill him. 275 yard shot.

Be adaptable.

 

[Marshfly]

so you are climbing a ridge or just about to pop over...an animal busts out disappearing you run the 50 yards up to the top. For argument sake the ridge you are on is open with nothing to rest on..eastern MT, Western Dakotas, WY. Animal runs out 250-300 yards stops looks back ready to make a break around a corner or into cover....why would I shoot off hand or off my knees when I can lay down and shoot off my bipod? Animal is aware you are there but standing looking at you. How much time do you have? What do you considered rushed?

I have shot more animals prone out west than standing or kneeling. While guiding hunts I would say 60% plus were prone in all sorts of terrain...30% were sitting/kneeling and the rest were quickish standing with a tree or fence post for rest.

If you hunt heavy timber a lot...yeah probably not a ton of opportunity...but I don't know of many hunts where I couldn't have in theory shot an animal prone....

I would and have done the same for that exact shot opportunity. But that's rare in the experience of my family and those I hunt with.

Our animals last year were killed in MT Regions 7 and 4. Plenty open. Not a single one could have been shot prone due to brush/grass height.

I would think, as a guide, (and I would do the same) you subconsciously or on purpose seek out shot locations that are more likely to have prone opportunities since that is the highest probability shot for clients, a lot of which, kind of suck with a rifle.

 

[huntnful]

I thought the emphasis on timed (rushed shots) in practice was because it’s an efficient way to replicate pressure. Fast target acquisition and faster proficiency seem like side effects of the real gains - operating under pressure.

I reckon we could also set our targets next to our trucks…

I think that is the proper take away/view. I just think it’s mentioned SO MUCH as the baseline for every testing scenario, that it seems that speed is the absolute goal and not just a replication of pressure to make you better, more efficient shooter in general.

 

[taskswap]

Are people not working on finding and getting within shot range of animals that are totally unaware of their presence? Are people just seeing moving animals at a range where a prone shot is necessary and hoping they have enough time to get a rushed shot off? At a moving animal? Because if that animal is not moving and unaware of your presence, you have time to not rush.

What am I missing here? I honestly don't see it.

What exactly is the source of this reaction? Is there some Youtube trend I missed that you're keying in on or something? Who are these "people" who are "rushing" prone shots in such numbers as to make you worry?

 

[Marshfly]

What exactly is the source of this reaction? Is there some Youtube trend I missed that you're keying in on or something? Who are these "people" who are "rushing" prone shots in such numbers as to make you worry?

It's here. Lots of talk about how seconds matter with prone shots. This method is too slow and you just don't know it yet. It's been the emphasis by a certain subset of the members here for quite a while that you have to be crazy fast at prone shots for some reason. And if you aren't super fast, you can't possibly be effective.

 

[Marshfly]

I think that is the proper take away/view. I just think it’s mentioned SO MUCH as the baseline for every testing scenario, that it seems that speed is the absolute goal and not just a replication of pressure to make you better, more efficient shooter in general.

I definitely agree with this. Pressure is good. Repeatability is great.

However that is not where those conversations end up from what I have seen.

 

[wapitibob]

It's here. Lots of talk about how seconds matter with prone shots. This method is too slow and you just don't know it yet. It's been the emphasis by a certain subset of the members here for quite a while that you have to be crazy fast at prone shots for some reason.

I file it with away the .223 and never clean the rifle posts.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I long ago lost count of how many deer I have killed. But I can say that it’s roughly two per year for the past 30 years. Of those, three were taken prone. I’ve also taken four wild turkeys with rifle shots from prone. None were particularly long shots (200-250 yards for the deer, 80-120 yards for the turkeys). Those also happen to be the three longest shots I have ever taken on a deer. I have also passed up three legal bucks when I could have shot them from prone. I have never carried a rear bag while hunting.

I still hunt 90% of the time. My normal hunting shot is a standing or seated snapshot. Generally, I only have a few seconds to engage. As I move through the woods, I am always considering the best way to get a supported shot based on where I think I will see a deer. Sometimes, if I have my .25-06 (the only deer rifle I own that has a bipod) and I am peaking over a ridge, I will pre-deploy my bipod if I think it might be useful. But it always depends on the terrain. I want to make my shooting position fit the situation.

The first one, there was fresh snow on the ground. The buck was around 220 yards away. He was totally oblivious, but the wind was swirling and that could have changed at any time. The shot was slightly uphill. Dropping my bipod at full length gave me a perfect shot (better angle than I would have had seated or prone). One shot with a .25-06 put him DRT.

The second one was a memorable day. It was Thanksgiving. I peaked my head over the crest of a hill and saw a buck and three does feeding in the hayfield about 250 yards away. I ducked down and low crawled up to where I could take a prone shot with the bipod. Again, because of the angle of the hilltop, the best supported shot was prone. One shot with a .25-06 put him DRT. I gutted him and started back up the hill to try to scare something up for my brother.

On my way, I ran into a flock of wild turkeys grazing in the pasture. I dropped down prone. I missed one (his head moved) and then neck shot two of them. I gathered them up and returned to the original spot to get the hat I had left there to mark the spot. While I was there, a second buck came walking down the hill towards me. I shot him in the chest. Tagged out completely in one day with two bucks and two turkeys. It just so happened that all shots were taken from the prone.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[huntnful]

I definitely agree with this. Pressure is good. Repeatability is great.

However that is not where those conversations end up from what I have seen.

Agreed 100%

 

[24valve]

Fast shots and timers are an invaluable training tool. For starters, anyone who has not ever timed themselves takes far longer than they think to set up and shoot (at least 2-4x as long).

Time is also the best tool to use during practice to replicate the pressure and stress during hunting in a realistic way (unless you have balls as big as @KyleR1985), as well as to highlight any shortcomings in your equipment or aspects of your performance.

I reckon we could also set our targets next to our trucks…

While not always necessary in the real world, some opportunities are missed due to slow setup and shooting, and you often don't realize just how many until you practice to be quick/efficient and are hunting with someone who is slow and/or unpracticed, especially in positional shooting.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

It's here. Lots of talk about how seconds matter with prone shots. This method is too slow and you just don't know it yet. It's been the emphasis by a certain subset of the members here for quite a while that you have to be crazy fast at prone shots for some reason. And if you aren't super fast, you can't possibly be effective.

Plenty of people aren’t ambush hunting at long range. If you have time to set up a tripod and catch your breath and check the range and calculate the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow, then go for it.

But there is no downside to being quick to get into the best position to take a shot.

A lot of what people on this site are talking about is teaching hunters how to set up their rifles and gear properly so they can use it all efficiently. And a lot of the training is focused on making people actually proficient, rather than reliant on a crutch. That was the whole point of the “don’t need a rear bag” post. That’s the whole point of my “a tripod is a retrograde step, not a technological advancement” post.

It’s not that rear bags or tripods or bipods or whatever are bad, but that a proficient rifleman should be able to engage targets competently without being reliant on the “extra” gear. And should be able to judge what gear is useful in a given situation.

We’ve all seen the hunting videos where some hunter looks right past a perfect rock that could be used for a supported standing shot with a backpack and instead contorts himself onto the ground to try to use his bipod or whatever. No one should be “that guy.”


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”