Why not the .358 Winchester for Iowa Whitetails?

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Watched a good video last night comparing the .308 to the .358 Winchester. Whereas the .30-06 is the big brother to the .308, the .35 Whelen is the big brother to the .358 Winchester.

The .358 Winchester uses the same case as the .308, blown out to accept .358 bullets. Inside 300-400 yards with a 225 grain AB it has more energy and very similar trajectory to the 180 grain .308 AB. It also has less recoil than the .35 Whelen due to reduced powder capacity. Finally, since it uses the .308 case, it can be chambered in a short action bolt gun or AR-10.

Upon a quick google search, ammo is relatively available although expensive, around $50-70/20 which is similar to the .35 Whelen in my experience.

For guys in Iowa where legal high powers must be .35 or bigger, this may be an even better option than the .35 Whelen.

Thoughts?

For a guy looking for a dual purpose rifle, the .358 Winchester is also more than capable of killing mulies and elk.

 

[Bluefish]

I am sure it would work well. Less powder than the whelen, so it won’t make the velocity. The top end loads in the whelen are compressed loads, so case capacity is the limiting factor for speed. you won’t ever push the 358 win as fast since the whelen is more powder and same pressure.

I have been using a 358 jdj which is close to the 358 win and it works fine. Slower by 350 ish fps than the whelen. What I have found is bullet selection is a little more limited due to the lower velocity. Need either a good bc or lower opening velocity to get much beyond 200 yards. long bullets also steal needed case capacity. Using the 200g FTX this upcoming year. .3 g1 and 1800 fps min

 

[Bluefish]

Other option, 358 yeti for an ar-15. Still a wildcat and magazines are a bit of an issue. Also works better with 180g.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I am sure it would work well. Less powder than the whelen, so it won’t make the velocity. The top end loads in the whelen are compressed loads, so case capacity is the limiting factor for speed. you won’t ever push the 358 win as fast since the whelen is more powder and same pressure.

I have been using a 358 jdj which is close to the 358 win and it works fine. Slower by 350 ish fps than the whelen. What I have found is bullet selection is a little more limited due to the lower velocity. Need either a good bc or lower opening velocity to get much beyond 200 yards. long bullets also steal needed case capacity. Using the 200g FTX this upcoming year. .3 g1 and 1800 fps min

You nailed it. You can use bullets down to 180, similar to the Whelen, but while you gain velocity, you lose BC. However, inside 300 yards BC is not as critical a measurement. Here is some sample Nosler and Barnes data. I killed an average Iowa whitetail last fall with the 225 Barnes in my 35 Whelen. Not a bang flop, but he didn't go far.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

The trajectory of the Nosler max RL7 load is attached. Roughly 1,700 fps at 300 yards, so would probably want to keep max range around 250 or less if possible given 1,800 minimum expansion. I would probably mess around with some of the Speer 180 and 200 and Accubonds as well.

 

[journeyman713]

I picked up a .358 right out high school, used this gun exclusively on Wisconsin whitetails for decades.
It's a perfect gun for this purpose!

 

[Rich M]

Remington is supposed to be releasing a .358 based off the 30-30 shell casing this year. Backhammer or something corny like that. 180/200 gr at 2200-2300 fps if I remember right.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Remington is supposed to be releasing a .358 based off the 30-30 shell casing this year. Backhammer or something corny like that. 180/200 gr at 2200-2300 fps if I remember right.

I just saw that. "Optimized for lever guns". It'll be interesting if you can get it in anything other than a 180 or 200 grain round nose. On paper, at 200 yards the 225 grain 358 Winchester outperforms it significantly in terms of velocity and energy (if you care about energy).

 

[Bluefish]

I would argue BC is important on this cartridg, not for drop or wind, but for what range bullets will still work. lets look at a couple 35 cal bullets I have been testing. With the 200g ftx .3g1 at 2400, it drops below 1800 at just over 225 yards. take a 200g shock hammer at a g1 bc of .235 and it hits 1800 at just over 175 yards. Take a maker 200 g which will open down to 1400 and it’s range due to a .145ish bc is about 200 yards. then 200g ttsx is a g1 of .369, 1800 fps is out of 275 yards. Almost 100 yards extra usable range worst to best simply due to using a bullet with a better BC.

 

[TN2shot07]

If I could find a rifle for a decent price I’d give it a shot on some TN whitetails. I’ve never understood why it or the 338 federal weren’t more popular, especially in the east

 

[Paladin]

I've got a little Remington Model 7 Custom in .358 and it is a widowmaker. It likes the 200gr SP factory loads from Hornady and also a 180gr TTSX load that I order from DoubleTap. All I've ever used it on is whitetails but it's so light I really want to carry it backcountry for muleys and elk.

 

[keystone112]

Do you reload? Do you like the factory ammunition that’s available ? If yes, then it looks great.

 

[rem700300]

I’ve wanted one for a while.It’s on my list of rifles to build.I think it will be perfect for hunting western Washington blacktails in the timber

 

[Rich M]

I just saw that. "Optimized for lever guns". It'll be interesting if you can get it in anything other than a 180 or 200 grain round nose. On paper, at 200 yards the 225 grain 358 Winchester outperforms it significantly in terms of velocity and energy (if you care about energy).

The ftx bullet has an 800 fps theshold, so bullet performance should not be an issue.

Velocity kills, and velocity + weight creates KE.

I shoot 165 FTX out of 350 Legend w great results to 250 yards. Will try 300 once i find a place w 300 yds to targets. Only 2 deer with it so far.

Also shoot .357 mag to 200 well. 14 deer w that one.

Love the .35 caliber bullets. Might do a .358 Remington if they ever come out, am very pleased w .355 and .357.

 

[Kimber7man]

Don't sleep on the 180 grain TTSX out of the 358 Win. For cheaper shooting and a deer killing bullet, the 200 grain Hornady SP Interlock is a great bullet.... That is all we use here in Indiana for deer hunting.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I've shot the 180 Speer Hot Cor out of my .35 Whelen and they've been very accurate. Never killed anything with them, but I'm sure they'd get the job done.

 

[OFFSHORE]

I am a big fan of the .358 Win. I reload and also cast my own bullets, so I have had a lot of fun with this round. I started out with a MGM T/C Encore barrel and just hammered deer and hog with it out to 275 and 300 yards. For store bought bullets you can't go wrong with the 225gr. Sierra BTSP or the Noz. AccuBond - when you can find either one that is. The 200gr. Hornady SP InterLok is another great bullet. I've wanted to try the Barnes but just haven't got around to them yet. I make my brass from .308 Win. brass stepping up with a few dies and then anneal, shoot and good to go. VV N135 and H4895 have been my GO-TO powders. I like the cartridge so much that I'm selling my Custom T/C Encore barrel to fund a .358 Win. barrel for a bolt action rifle I have. I live/hunt in the southeast, and heavy woods are pretty much my norm but I do get out on field edges and powerline easements were I can stretch its legs, so that is "my" justification for building one - LOL.

 

[Wildone]

I personnally have a hard time accurately judging the true size of an animal beyond 200-250 yds. I mean pick it apart type field judging. I kill most of mine at under a 100 95% of the time. There is not a deer on the planet that will not succomb to a well placed .358 win pill at those ranges. But that is just how I hunt, it may not be how everone else does it and that is all good with me. I have buddies that regularly take deer/elk/bear and caribou whith their whelans beyond 400 and it is a sight to behold. I guess the real questions here are how do you want to hunt and what do you need the gun to do? The 358 win has a long reputation of dropping things reliably.

 

[Damdamdon]

I have a 358 hoosier. It is slightly shortened 358 winchester. It is a indiana wildcat.
Easy to make brass from 358 or 308 brass. Have killed many deer with this cartridge. Usually Bangflop kills. I nicknamed it my "slobberknocker " So don't
Wander how 358 winchester works. I am a believer

 

[bdg848]

I'm in Iowa and I plan on getting a 35 for deer here and occasional black bear or maybe elk out west. I'm planning on a Ruger No1 "International", with the mannlicher forend and short 20 inch barrel, and having it rebored to 35 cal and threaded for a suppressor. I had initially been thinking of the Whelen but then found out about the 358Win. With the 20 inch barrel I'm wanting, I think the 358Win makes better use of it's available powder charge. With the short barrel, I think the only real gain from the Whelen is muzzle blast and recoil. I'm basically settled on the 358 for my Iowa deer gun and the BuffaloBore loads for it give respectable performance for elk out to 300 yards or so. If It was a bear/elk gun, I'd go with a Whelen and at least a 24 inch barrel but the 358Win seems to be about the perfect Iowa deer cartridge.