Why not more attention given to the NAS3 cases and their advantages?

[4IDARCHER]

With the advancements in the 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 Win NAS3 case now pushing factory 6.5 PRC and 30-06 speeds I am surprised there isn’t more demand for additional big game calibers and more companies to load them? What am I missing here, why are they not one of the more popular subjects being talked about?

 

[BBob]

Some people are talking about them and using them. There's at least one thread on here discussing the use of them. But I'm betting not a lot of people are even aware they exist which is why you're not seeing much so far. There's also growing pains with them (can't reload them yet if ever for one) so you're going to get people that won't even try them until it all gets worked out. Same goes for the Backcountry case.

 

[glock233]

I’ve played with them. Accuracy issues at those pressures seem likely.

 

[grfox92]

I'm betting not a lot of people are even aware they exist which is why you're not seeing much so far.

Correct. Never heard of them.


Sent from my SM-S931U using Tapatalk

 

[4IDARCHER]

I’ve played with them. Accuracy issues at those pressures seem likely.

I have tested them out in a few different calibers, configurations. I did notice accuracy degrade a bit over the those rifle’s favorite loads but not enough to concern me in a hunting rifle. I often think though that people put in way too much time chasing the last .10 of an inch in accuracy in a hunting rig, than terminal performance or actually spending that time and energy scouting or buying tags.

I know everyone is different but I would much rather have a rifle shoot a great bullet at a 1.2 inch group than an average bullet or load at .75. I am primarily a bow hunter so to me the passion is getting in close and hunting, but completely understand those that like to shoot steel at distance have different needs/wants.

 

[StupidLightweight]

A large part of why these new case technologies aren't more popular is because hunters/shooters no longer thirst for maximum speed. It ain't the '90s anymore. Once you realize efficiency and ballistic knowledge trump raw horsepower, it's hard to go back.

I do think it's amazing technology with undeniable applications. Big boomers just aren't for me. I killed an elk with the 7mm BC a few years back, but I prefer .243/6mm Creed level recoil or lower.

 

[WoodlandCritter]

I have no desire to wear my barrel out that much faster just to hold 1 or 2 moa higher at 400 yards. If I had cared about getting 6.5PRC speeds I would have bought a PRC in the first place, not a CDM.

 

[marktoleoutdoors]

With the advancements in the 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 Win NAS3 case now pushing factory 6.5 PRC and 30-06 speeds I am surprised there isn’t more demand for additional big game calibers and more companies to load them? What am I missing here, why are they not one of the more popular subjects being talked about?

Cost too much money. If I'm not mistaken, don't the NAS3 case loaded factory ammo have similar price tags on them as a PRC ammo? They're definitely more expensive than factory brass ammo. A big part of the reason I shoot 6/25/6.5 creedmoor, 5.56/.223, and .308 is because its affordable to actually go out and shoot recreationally, train, and compete with them. That and availability of quality factory match ammo. I personally have no desire to increase the cost of an already expensive hobby. What we have now seems to be working fine for me.

 

[dylanvb]

Cost too much money. If I'm not mistaken, don't the NAS3 case loaded factory ammo have similar price tags on them as a PRC ammo? They're definitely more expensive than factory brass ammo. A big part of the reason I shoot 6/25/6.5 creedmoor, 5.56/.223, and .308 is because its affordable to actually go out and shoot recreationally, train, and compete with them. That and availability of quality factory match ammo. I personally have no desire to increase the cost of an already expensive hobby. What we have now seems to be working fine for me.

From my own research NAS3 was cheaper when comparing quality brass shells for reloading. I don’t remember the exact numbers but I can google it later and report back.

Edit: Current brass for Lapua of Midway is on sale at $104 for 100 count. Shell Shock has 250 count at $199. Savings is there but minimal.
I’ll add this brass goes on sale more then the NAS3 which can make brass a cheaper option and also I was only looking at .308
Also NAS3 boasts of being lighter overall so more weight savings in the back country. I dove down this rabbit hole but just haven’t had the chance to do my own physical research.

 

[marktoleoutdoors]

From my own research NAS3 was cheaper when comparing quality brass shells for reloading. I don’t remember the exact numbers but I can google it later and report back.

Copy, yeah I don't reload so I had not looked into the cost of NAS3 cases vs quality brass.

What's the deal on reloading the NAS3 cases? I saw one guy here mention you cannot reload those? Yet?

 

[wind gypsy]

From my own research NAS3 was cheaper when comparing quality brass shells for reloading. I don’t remember the exact numbers but I can google it later and report back.

It's priced well if one is only considering a single firing. Not so much when comparing a single firing to a bunch of firings in a brass case.

I think the NAS3 thing is compelling. We'll find out with time if the juice is worth the squeeze. I bought some 556 cases for my 223 but i'm not that fired up about it and haven't loaded any yet. If i could get 88 TMKs to approach 77 TMK velocity with similar precision, that would be attractive for hunting purposes. I'm not sold on paying for cases for every firing though when 223 brass is essentially free. They could be a way to get traditional barrel length velocities out of shorter barrels spec'd for use with a suppressor.

 

[wind gypsy]

I have tested them out in a few different calibers, configurations. I did notice accuracy degrade a bit over the those rifle’s favorite loads but not enough to concern me in a hunting rifle. I often think though that people put in way too much time chasing the last .10 of an inch in accuracy in a hunting rig, than terminal performance or actually spending that time and energy scouting or buying tags.

I know everyone is different but I would much rather have a rifle shoot a great bullet at a 1.2 inch group than an average bullet or load at .75. I am primarily a bow hunter so to me the passion is getting in close and hunting, but completely understand those that like to shoot steel at distance have different needs/wants.

In this case, what is the upside for you? If you dont need the velocity and it's not more accurate, what is the benefit?

 

[dylanvb]

A lot of good points to consider here, it’s new therefore not many people are willing to be guinea pigs with there 5k rifles, understandable. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.

More velocity, more wear on the barrel.
For me myself it brings more velocity out of my .308. Do I need it, no. Do I want it, yeah. I don’t want to go out and buy a 6.5. To me if you are going the reloading route it seems that the shells are more consistent with what you would be getting out of higher cost and grade brass for some savings. I also heard when reloading that you don’t have to worry as much about the expansion on the shells as you would for regular brass therefore equating to more consistent performance out of the shells then say to brass. But let’s be honest we are splitting hairs here. You’re gonna be saving Pennie’s a round, your accuracy and reliability go up a hair but it’s not astronomical. More performance etc. I just think since it’s the new kid on the block it won’t be talked about much but it’s definitely peeked my interest.

Some of the videos I watched on it.

 

[4IDARCHER]

In this case, what is the upside for you? If you dont need the velocity and it's not more accurate, what is the benefit?

The retained energy, how versatile it makes the cartridge, and the ability to stay in a short action and shorter overall length for use with a suppressor. In the .308 for example I can buy some subsonics to play with, the 130 barns at 3100fps (out an 18-20 inch barrel) and step up to the 175gr LRX at 2750 (again out of a 20 inch barrel). I can have a shorter overall length rifle, still capable of getting 24 inch 30-06 speeds in a 20 inch .308.
I teach a practical ballistics class to law enforcement and select military units. None traditional shooting classes, and I understand long range shooting but it has never been fun for me in a hunting situation. What is the challenge of shooting an elk at 5-600 yards? On the other hand if I had a 6.5
Creedmoor that I wanted to press into usage for elk these new cases (at reasonable ranges) gives me that option.

 

[wind gypsy]

The retained energy, how versatile it makes the cartridge, and the ability to stay in a short action and shorter overall length for use with a suppressor. In the .308 for example I can buy some subsonics to play with, the 130 barns at 3100fps (out an 18-20 inch barrel) and step up to the 175gr LRX at 2750 (again out of a 20 inch barrel). I can have a shorter overall length rifle, still capable of getting 24 inch 30-06 speeds in a 20 inch .308.
I teach a practical ballistics class to law enforcement and select military units. None traditional shooting classes, and I understand long range shooting but it has never been fun for me in a hunting situation. What is the challenge of shooting an elk at 5-600 yards? On the other hand if I had a 6.5
Creedmoor that I wanted to press into usage for elk these new cases (at reasonable ranges) gives me that option.

I agree with the benefits, i paid for sig fury 2pc cases formed into 6.5 creed for exactly that elk hunting scenario as my 18" 6.5 creed would be pretty anemic at standard pressures with heavy bullets. If I wanted to cap myself at 300 yards, i wouldn't bother with alternative cases. Was just pointing out that the benefits dont matter for the most part at traditional hunting distances. Put an expanding 30 cal bullet through vitals, it doesn't matter much if it's 2400 fps or 2600 fps impact, the animal is dying just the same.

I'm nitpicking and not disagreeing with the sentiment of the initial post - they seem to offer a real performance upside potential and i'm following with interest.

 

[mtnbound]

With the advancements in the 6.5 Creedmoor and .308 Win NAS3 case now pushing factory 6.5 PRC and 30-06 speeds I am surprised there isn’t more demand for additional big game calibers and more companies to load them? What am I missing here, why are they not one of the more popular subjects being talked about?

For me, it is because the company states this,


but then states this in the FAQs.

 

[nm.otter]

hunters/shooters no longer thirst for maximum speed. It ain't the '90s anymore. Once you realize efficiency and ballistic knowledge trump raw horsepower, it's hard to go back.

I do think it's amazing technology with undeniable applications.

For me, it's the prospect of being able to approach Creedmoor velocities out of a short barrel using an ARC case (or PRC velocities out of a Creedmoor). Not all the time, but just having the option -- in the same gun -- for the occasional hunt where it mattered.

I suspect reloading will eventually get figured out, perhaps using carbide dies like the 7mm BC does.

 

[Sundodger]

I am excited about the potential of cases that can handle higher pressure; NAS3, Sig Fury, BC, alpha munitions brass, or otherwise but am waiting for the dust to settle a bit.

The combination of high pressure and short barrels seems like a match made in heaven, especially with certain cartridges. I also like the idea of allowing cartridges with lower powder volume to compete with cartridges of higher powder volume for better efficiency and lower recoil.

I am not convinced that higher pressure rounds will necessarily have higher barrel wear. Admittedly, I have never been involved with an FMEA on barrel wear, but the old rule of thumb "powder volume to bore ratio" doesn't account for it as well as the classic "barrel burner" cartridges tend to have slow powder. Which I would take to assume the pressure in the area of the barrel that takes the beating (throat) is rather low in fact.

 

[Judd]

I'm a tinker and tuner...if I can't reload them, they have zero value to me.

The advantage is no doubt is higher velocities in shorter barrels...it's where everything is headed and for good reason. Suppressors are changing the game.

 

[Chris in TN]

If I wanted 6.5PRC level of performance I'd buy a 6.5PRC.

I frankly do not want a cartridge that runs 80kPSI or whatever they run. Zero, zilch interest. I don't even load most conventional brass cased cartridges to SAAMI max pressures.