Why Match/Target Bullets For Hunting

[EmperorMA]

Next is terminal max effective range. I’ll explain in the next list what that means, but let’s just start with a expansion/upset that creates at least a 1 to 1.5 inch wide permanent wound channel.

Using the same two bullets (147gr ELD-M and 140gr Accubond), the ELD-M needs 1,750fps +/- impact velocity to achieve that. The Accubond needs 1,900fps +/- to do the same. Using the above rifle and conditions (SAC) the differences are as follows-

140gr Accubond 440 yards-
View attachment 255795


147gr ELD-M is 810 yards-
View attachment 255796


By using a match bullet (at least this one) you’ve increased your terminal effective range by nearly double.

I am really glad my Winchester 6.5 Creedmoor really likes the 147 ELD-M. It likes the 142 ABLR quite a bit so I use that, but I may have to try the 147 on game.

 

[Formidilosus]

Terminal ballistics next, it’ll be long and I’m eating lunch.

 

[prm]

What is the difference in a “target” bullet and many of the hunting cup and core bullets upon impact? Not much. I tried shooting many bullets into damp paper to compare penetration and channel. Turns out a bullet like the Lapua Scenar performs better than many “hunting“ bullets. Then used it on a Mule Deer hunt and it performed perfectly. A Berger VLD performed perfectly on a bull elk. These were both 6.5s (139, 140). With the VLD you’d be really hard pressed to tell a difference in the internal damage to that of a bull hit by a much larger bullet. Bullet placement is far more important. The only animal I’ve witnessed being hit and then lost was an Impala shot with a 300 Win Mag and a TTSX. Placement trumps head stamp. I’ve used the TTSX on many animals with great results. If it’s going fast to open nice and wide they perform very well. I’m now much more concerned with finding elk or deer than I am about bullet choice.

 

[MuleyFever]

Terminal ballistics next, it’ll be long and I’m eating lunch.

We know you like match bullets. I have a few questions for you.

Do you favor them across all ranges and the potentially high impact velocities?

If for whatever reason the chance of a shoulder impact was almost certain would you still favor a match bullet? Also, at high velocity?

I see you talk a lot about smaller calibers. I shoot a 280ai. What bullets have you seen perform best on deer/elk in the 7mm diameter? What about other larger calibers?

Do you advise heavy for caliber with match bullets for hunting?

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

We know you like match bullets. I have a few questions for you.

Do you favor them across all ranges and the potentially high impact velocities?

If for whatever reason the chance of a shoulder impact was almost certain would you still favor a match bullet? Also, at high velocity?

I see you talk a lot about smaller calibers. I shoot a 280ai. What bullets have you seen perform best on deer/elk in the 7mm diameter? What about other larger calibers?

Do you advise heavy for caliber with match bullets for hunting?

There is no perfect bullet for all conditions. You may have to make compromises. Choose something appropriate for your target animal(s) under the conditions that you are most likely to encounter while hunting. It sucks but you may just have to learn to pass on a shot if you, your rifle, your scope, and/or your ammo are not up to the very specific task at hand.

If most shots are likely to be close, then you don't need a bullet designed for ultra long range. Conversely if most shots are likely to be way out there, then a conventional bullet may be insufficient for the task.

If you are running bullets tough enough to punch through a shoulder, then aim for the shoulder. But if you miss and hit lungs be aware that you may have a tracking job. Conversely if you use a "softer" bullet then aim for the lungs. If you miss and hit shoulder, you have to be aware that you may have a mess on your hands.

As far as bullet weight, it depends. Does the lighter bullet meet (or exceed) your accuracy, distance and velocity requirements? What about the heavier bullet? Overall does either edge out the other despite both meeting/exceeding your requirements?

I'd wager that a sizable portion of bullet "failures" are less about the bullet and more about the shooter taking a shot that they should have passed on.

Here are a couple of examples.

1) Bull elk at 500 yards and I only have a shoulder shot. With my 6.5 PRC running 147 gr ELD-M, I'd have to take a pass since it is likely that the bullet may have penetration issues. But if I had my 300 WM running 180 gr TTSX, I'd take the shot as it is a much tougher bullet and is unlikely to have an issue penetrating the shoulder. -- Change the target to include the lungs and I'd take the shot with the PRC. Extend the distance by 200 yards, and I'd have to take a pass on the shoulder shot with this 300 WM (insufficient fps to reliably expand).

2) Black bear at 600 yards and I have a lung shot. With my 300 WM running 190 gr Berger, I'd take the shot as there's plenty of velocity for the bullet to reliably expand when it hits the lungs. With my 308 Win running 178 gr ELD-X, I'd have to pass as the bullet is down to 1650 fps at that distance so it is highly unlikely that my bullet will expand and I'd have to go after a wounded and mad bear. I'd also have to pass with my 30-06 (168 gr TTSX) on this shot as it'd be at 1750 fps at that distance. It could expand as it is only 50 fps under the published minimum, but it is too big a risk. -- Change to shoulder only and it'd be a pass with the 300 WM. Shorten the distance and I'd take the shot with the 308 or 30-06.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

So why use projectiles labeled as match bullets? Three reasons, and none are “accuracy”. The reasons are terminal ballistics performance, increased hit rates, and longer expansion/upset range.

A sincere thanks for the very informative posts. Let me ask a few questions about this. Those of us that frequent forums regularly and consume a lot of information can learn that certain match bullets can be great hunting bullets. If I didn't, why would I go out and grab 6mm 95 grain TMKs instead of 95 grain Nosler BTs if I was going on an antelope hunt? Is it responsible to use a match bullet on game if you don't know how it will perform on game? Clear me up on what looks like a contradiction. "None of the reasons are accuracy" but one is "increased hits." It seems like they are one in the same.

I didn't quote it, but you suggested a dual billing as a match and game bullet would lose shooters. What kind of shooters would eschew it because of the dual billing?

Going back to the 77 grain TMK, seems most of the folks here love it at 223 speeds. Is that from the muzzle to way out there? How do you feel about it from the muzzle to way on out there at 22-250 or 220 Swift velocities?

 

[Ucsdryder]

@Formidilosus thanks for taking the time! You compared a eldm with a bonded bullet that wasn’t as accurate. What about an eldx that is pretty close in accuracy and “supposedly” built for hunting specifically.

 

[wind gypsy]

@Formidilosus thanks for taking the time! You compared a eldm with a bonded bullet that wasn’t as accurate. What about an eldx that is pretty close in accuracy and “supposedly” built for hunting specifically.

His comparison was of bullets that were equally accurate but with different BC and of same bullets but different accuracy. The results illustrated bigger gaps in hit rates from the different BCs than the different accuracy.

 

[Wapiti1]

A sincere thanks for the very informative posts. Let me ask a few questions about this. Those of us that frequent forums regularly and consume a lot of information can learn that certain match bullets can be great hunting bullets. If I didn't, why would I go out and grab 6mm 95 grain TMKs instead of 95 grain Nosler BTs if I was going on an antelope hunt? Is it responsible to use a match bullet on game if you don't know how it will perform on game? Clear me up on what looks like a contradiction. "None of the reasons are accuracy" but one is "increased hits." It seems like they are one in the same.

I didn't quote it, but you suggested a dual billing as a match and game bullet would lose shooters. What kind of shooters would eschew it because of the dual billing?

Going back to the 77 grain TMK, seems most of the folks here love it at 223 speeds. Is that from the muzzle to way out there? How do you feel about it from the muzzle to way on out there at 22-250 or 220 Swift velocities?

Think more along the lines of legal reasons not to bill a bullet as a hunting bullet. Hunting bullets are designed and intended to kill animals. Stating it was not designed for such things opens doors for sale to other places that a hunting bullet might be legally problematic in.

It would not lose shooters per se. It would lose contracts that have specific wording and legal needs.

Don't look at it as a hunter/shooter. Look at it like a police department might.

Jeremy

 

[Formidilosus]

A sincere thanks for the very informative posts.

No problem. I hope they help answer
questions.

Let me ask a few questions about this. Those of us that frequent forums regularly and consume a lot of information can learn that certain match bullets can be great hunting bullets. If I didn't, why would I go out and grab 6mm 95 grain TMKs instead of 95 grain Nosler BTs if I was going on an antelope hunt? Is it responsible to use a match bullet on game if you don't know how it will perform on game? Clear me up on what looks like a contradiction. "None of the reasons are accuracy" but one is "increased hits." It seems like they are one in the same.

Ok, there’s quite a bit in there. First, the 95gr NBT is one of those few bullets that was litterly designed and engineered around a specific cartridge and use: the 243 Win for deer and elk. Terminally within its operating window it is a fantastic killer. If a 6mm with sub 3,200fps MV is being used and at 400-500 yards and less, that’s a really hard bullet to beat. Take the 95gr NBT, increase the weight and form factor until you get a mid .5 G1 BC, without increasing its penetration depth, and I would use it for everything that walks.


So why the 95gr TMK versus the 95gr NBT. Ballistic coefficient primarily. As the examples I gave in hit rates of the two 6.5 bullets went, so goes the hit rates of these two 6mm bullets. The 95gr TMK will have less misses due to errors in wind calling. The second reason is the increased terminal range due to the TMK upsetting at lower impact velocities, and the third is due to higher BC losing less velocity over distance, which extends the range even farther.

On “accuracy”, that’s the reason I put it into quotes. It’s common vernacular, but accuracy is technically how centered a shot group is to the aim point, not how close those shots in the groups are to each other. A more correct way to put it- is that precision, as in group size, has little effect on hit rates of big game animals in the field. That’s because we’re not missing due to the group size being bigger than the target, we’re missing primarily due to windage errors

Going back to the 77 grain TMK, seems most of the folks here love it at 223 speeds. Is that from the muzzle to way out there? How do you feel about it from the muzzle to way on out there at 22-250 or 220 Swift velocities?

The 77gr TMK works excellently in medium to big game from approximately 2,800fps to around 1,900fps, and still acceptably a bit below that. It will exhibit shallower penetration above those speeds. Still ok for rib shots, but if one lands on the “knuckle” of an elks humerus/scapula at very high velocity, it may not make it through both lungs.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

No problem. I hope they help answer
questions.



Ok, there’s quite a bit in there. First, the 95gr NBT is one of those few bullets that was litterly designed and engineered around a specific cartridge and use: the 243 Win for deer and elk. Terminally within its operating window it is a fantastic killer. If a 6mm with sub 3,200fps MV is being used and at 400-500 yards and less, that’s a really hard bullet to beat. Take the 95gr NBT, increase the weight and form factor until you get a mid .5 G1 BC, without increasing its penetration depth, and I would use it for everything that walks.


So why the 95gr TMK versus the 95gr NBT. Ballistic coefficient primarily. As the examples I gave in hit rates of the two 6.5 bullets went, so goes the hit rates of these two 6mm bullets. The 95gr TMK will have less misses due to errors in wind calling. The second reason is the increased terminal range due to the TMK upsetting at lower impact velocities, and the third is due to higher BC losing less velocity over distance, which extends the range even farther.

On “accuracy”, that’s the reason I put it into quotes. It’s common vernacular, but accuracy is technically how centered a shot group is to the aim point, not how close those shots in the groups are to each other. A more correct way to put it- is that precision, as in group size, has little effect on hit rates of big game animals in the field. That’s because we’re not missing due to the group size being bigger than the target, we’re missing primarily due to windage errors.

The 77gr TMK works excellently in medium to big game from approximately 2,800fps to around 1,900fps, and still acceptably a bit below that. It will exhibit shallower penetration above those speeds. Still ok for rib shots, but if one lands on the “knuckle” of an elks humerus/scapula at very high velocity, it may not make it through both lungs.

I bought a 6 Creed in part with hopes that the mid 5 BC hunting bullet would follow, and it will. It just makes too much sense. I appreciated your comments on wind. My belief has always been that wind would cause more misses than any other factor, but I don't have the experience to state that definitively. Just too many variables with the wind. Learning to read it, especially over mixed terrain, would take a crapton of experience.

 

[rope]

Caliber	6 mm
Bullet Weight	105 Grain
Product Line	VLD Hunting
G1 BC	0.545
G7 BC	0.278
G7 Form Factor	0.915
Minimum Twist (or faster)	1:8"

 

[MuleyFever]

The 108 Elite Hunter has a .559 BC.

 

[woods89]

I shot 2 deer with TMK's out of a 6.5 this year. I'll shoot them or Bergers from here on out. They work, and in my sample size kill pretty dramatically.

 

[Castle Rock]

That is pretty convincing

 

[Ucsdryder]

His comparison was of bullets that were equally accurate but with different BC and of same bullets but different accuracy. The results illustrated bigger gaps in hit rates from the different BCs than the different accuracy.

Maybe it missed it but why does higher bc lead to more hits? Less wind drift? Less bullet drop at long range?

 

[MuleyFever]

Maybe it missed it but why does higher bc lead to more hits? Less wind drift? Less bullet drop at long range?

Correct.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

Maybe it missed it but why does higher bc lead to more hits? Less wind drift? Less bullet drop at long range?

If I understood him correctly, primarily because of the better wind bucking ability of a high BC bullet. The lateral spread on the targets seems to support that thought. Doping drop is science, doping the wind is art.

 

[wind gypsy]

Maybe it missed it but why does higher bc lead to more hits? Less wind drift? Less bullet drop at long range?

The model uses a shooters wind reading error, I think in forms example it was +\- 2 mph. It’s basically illustrating that the BC makes up for some of your wind call errors compared to a bullet with a lower BC.

 

[Formidilosus]

We know you like match bullets. I have a few questions for you.

It’s not so much that I “like” match bullets, as much as it is that certain ones create a lot of tissue damage and thus kill faster. And by proxy, because they do create so much damage, you can shoot smaller cartridges and still maintain more than adequate performance. However match projectiles are all over the map in how they behave terminally. Some are big varmint bullets, some don’t expand or upset at all, and some are in the middle.

I’m not a fan of using big cartridges and then because they cause too much meat loss, throttling them back with certain bullets (300 mags and monos for instance). It’s makes much more sense to me to find the smallest round that when using optimized bullets, gives me the terminal effects that I want. Also, for the below, understand that I am looking for performance from each round from muzzle to as far as possible. I kill a lot of animals close, but I also kill quite a bit at distance as well.

Do you favor them across all ranges and the potentially high impact velocities?

Yes, I do favor appropriate match bullets at all ranges and impact velocities in general, though I use quite a bit of non match bullets as well. While an extremely frangible bullet may not be ideal at 40 yards, it’s workable and will kill cleanly close, while killing much better at distance. But a deep penetrating bullet creates narrow wounds, especially at distance, and drastically shortens the effective range.

If for whatever reason the chance of a shoulder impact was almost certain would you still favor a match bullet? Also, at high velocity?

If the projectile for a given impact velocity is chosen correctly, there is no issue with match bullets even at higher velocity. They’re going to fragment, but as long as the combo is appropriate, they easily go through shoulders.

I see you talk a lot about smaller calibers. I shoot a 280ai. What bullets have you seen perform best on deer/elk in the 7mm diameter? What about other larger calibers?

The 180gr ELD-M is probably my first choice. But the 162gr ELD-M and X, 175gr X, the Sierra 160gr TMK, and the heavier Bergers starting with the 168gr, will all do what I want if I’m shooting bigger 7mm’s including the 280AI.
Larger calibers follow the same path- usually the heaviest Hornady ELD-M or X, Sierra TMK, or Berger.

Do you advise heavy for caliber with match bullets for hunting?

Very much so. The four main lines I use are the previously mentioned Hornady ELD-M and X, Sierra TMK, and Bergers. They fragment violently and the way to reach acceptable penetration is through heavier bullets (well, more bullet to fragment).