Who's gone from a down bag back to synthetic?

[sneaky]

I can probably count on one hand the number of guys I know who would be in the same situations that Barklow tested gear in... and they all were probably students of his. The average hunter is NEVER going to get to that level. Down bags are a viable long term option. You take care of down, and 30 years from now it'll be just like when you first bought it. Synthetic loses loft and insulation properties over time, especially through multiple compression cycles. There are custom bag and quilt makers where you can get both in the same quilt or bag. More options out there than REI, BA, or Kifaru. You just have to research what you are exactly looking for.

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[wind gypsy]

Nunatak should have a prototype of a new apex insulated center zip I requested done within a month. Should be lighter than what is currently available on the synthetic market.

I’d not hesitate to use my WM bag anywhere but couldn’t leave well enough alone and wanted to see how close I could get with synthetic for any hunts where I’m more likely to get back to camp soaked and hop into a bag that way.

 

[sneaky]

Nunatak should have a prototype of a new apex insulated center zip I requested done within a month. Should be lighter than what is currently available on the synthetic market.

I’d not hesitate to use my WM bag anywhere but couldn’t leave well enough alone and wanted to see how close I could get with synthetic for any hunts where I’m more likely to get back to camp soaked and hop into a bag that way.

You do a variation of the Nova bivy? Interested to hear the details. You can PM if you want. About to give Jan a bunch of my money anyways lol.

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[New Yoraska]

I get the logic and almost went the synthetic route last year. But with hundreds of nights sleeping in a very wet environment, I have yet to have my down bag fail me. I have gone to bed with wet clothing on too. maybe if it was an isolated ten-day sheep hunt I might go synthetic but until I see an issue I'm staying with down.

Ryan I am thinking of trying the down side of sleep systems and this is extremely helpful! Was this with a normal down bag or treated down? Also did you bring your down bag when you went to Kodiak a few years ago?

Thanks for all the info!

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[Ryan Avery]

Ryan I am thinking of trying the down side of sleep systems and this is extremely helpful! Was this with a normal down bag or treated down? Also did you bring your down bag when you went to Kodiak a few years ago?

Thanks for all the info!

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I use two down bags mainly. A WM GWS Badger and an older Marmot helium, they don't have treated down. I did use an MH Ghost Whisper bag last year with treated down.

On Kodiak, I believe I had the Badger. but we slept on cots.

Most of my trips have been in N. Idaho or NW Montana. Which is always wet and clammy in the fall.

I always use a good lightweight bivy, which I would use with a synthetic bag too. I've never owned a floored tent and never have had an issue with my down bags.

 

[Apollo117]

Ryan mentioned treated down. I'm curious how many folks with wet down horror stories had the treated down products like Dri-down.

Anybody out there have a treated down bag fail when wet?

 

[jmden]

Ant

A few years ago I picked up one of the Sea to Summit dry compression sacks for my down bag, this at least keeps it dry while being transported, like the example you gave of falling in a creek. Of course, there is still the risk of the bag somehow getting wet once unpacked. I didn't want to give up the advantages of down either though.

What he said. Same here. You protect it and don't take it out of the dry sack until tent is set up. Worked well for me for many years this way.

Down is the way to go. My experience with synthetic has been less than stellar over the years. Synthetic often quickly loses loft over time. Down can be carefully washed and will retain its loft over a many year period, properly cared for. I don't know how well it worx from personal experience, but there's a number of technologies being employed to make down 'water resistant', with varying degrees of success. At this point, I'd be very surprised if I every bought a synthetic bag again, but who knows, technology could catch up with down at some point.

 

[Tony Trietch]

I have both but the ul down bags usually get the nod for the areas I hunt. This season I got my down bag damp over a few consecutive nights that were rainy with high humidity, I froze my ass off and I am not the guy that typically gets cold.
After that hunt, I stopped in to see Aron @ Kifaru to get a Slick bag on my way to the next state. I used the Slick bag for the next 5 hunts and never got cold even though it was getting much colder and wetter outside.
I will still use down but if there is moist conditions, the Slick bag will get the nod.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I have both but the ul down bags usually get the nod for the areas I hunt. This season I got my down bag damp over a few consecutive nights that were rainy with high humidity, I froze my ass off and I am not the guy that typically gets cold.
After that hunt, I stopped in to see Aron @ Kifaru to get a Slick bag on my way to the next state. I used the Slick bag for the next 5 hunts and never got cold even though it was getting much colder and wetter outside.
I will still use down but if there is moist conditions, the Slick bag will get the nod.

What down bag? Do you use a bivy?

 

[Tony Trietch]

What down bag? Do you use a bivy?

It was a Marmot Plasma 15. I call it the feather coffin. Super narrow and probably closer to a 25 degree bag.
I was using the Henry Shires Tarptent Notch Li.
No bivy here


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[sneaky]

It was a Marmot Plasma 15. I call it the feather coffin. Super narrow and probably closer to a 25 degree bag.
I was using the Henry Shires Tarptent Notch Li.
No bivy here


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Were you using the mesh or solid inner with that Notch?

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[Tony Trietch]

Were you using the mesh or solid inner with that Notch?

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Mesh. There’s a sticky up top on my thoughts regarding it.


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[sneaky]

Mesh. There’s a sticky up top on my thoughts regarding it.


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I've read it several times, just didn't know if you had both inners for it or not

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[wind gypsy]

You do a variation of the Nova bivy? Interested to hear the details. You can PM if you want. About to give Jan a bunch of my money anyways lol.

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Below is the description/specs that we agreed on. Jan wants to make a prototype and test it prior to sending one my way. This could be done with a robic shell to be waterproof but I opted for more breathability for “cooking off” moisture.

A mummy design mix between the Nova and Alpinist

Apex: 7.5

Shell: 10d dark grey

Liner: 10d black

L: to 6’
W: 32”
Foot: 40”

Zipper: 30” #3 coil inside/outside pull
Dual draft tubes

 

[sneaky]

Jan’s description that we came to:

A mummy design mix between the Nova and Alpinist

Apex: 7.5

Shell: 10d dark grey

Liner: 10d black

L: to 6’
W: 32”
Foot: 40”

Zipper: 30” #3 coil inside/outside pull
Dual draft tubes

He give you a ballpark on what that might weigh?

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[Beendare]

I go back and forth on Syn vs down.

In most cases, I choose down. On a wet coastal Alaska hunt....a good Syn bag is fantastic. I've come off of some hunts with my down bag about 2x heavier and it looks like its soggy.

I think its important to realize not all down...or synthetic for that matter is equal. Some of the lesser loft down -the 550,650 stuff just doesn't hold its loft over the years. So when buying down anything, go 800 fill or better. I own some of the treated down garments but have yet to soak them.

Some of the Syn insulations are the same when it comes to loft. Not all Syn insulation is equal...in the way its constructed or the way it moves moisture......plus some shell fabrics don't move moisture.

Best bet, buy from a quality manufacturer. If I was buying another down bag it would be from Western Mountaineering. If Synthetic, Wiggys.

I was toying with making a Syn bag...but I wouldn't even bother unless I could find the Climashield version that has their Aquaban technology.

 

[wind gypsy]

He give you a ballpark on what that might weigh?

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35 ish ounces was the last estimate but he might have changed design ideas since. Should be in the ballpark still.

I believe the 20 degree slick is 2 layers of 3.6 apex so this should be comparable warmth.

 

[SneekyPee]

If I know it’s gonna be dry while I’m out I run a down but this year there was a “chance “ of rain on my hunt so I opted for my 20 degree slick bag , and so glad I ended up bringing it , we got hit with a nasty storm on our hike in and got caught above timberline and I just so happened to forget my Sitka core hoody “my one and only base layer I had planned on taking “ but I did have a long sleeve cotton kifaru hoody T that I ended up hunting in and I was soaked for basically 4 days due to the rain . was super nice to have the synthetic bag to help me dry out at night would have been miserable in my down bag


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[Stickeen]

Getting geared up for a sheep hunt in the Brooks this year and was considering going from synthetic to down. Don't own down anything living in SE AK. Those quilts have me intrigued though, but now I'm not sure...

 

[Thelostabbey]

I am no expert on anything but I have come to the conclusion that a person really has to actually purchase things and then use that thing in the field to be able to figure out what is going to work best for them. It also seems to me that many people want to be told what is going to be best for them and want to avoid the process of field testing things.

But in the end if you want what will work best for you/fit your system best I really think field testing is the way to go.....I try to buy stuff used at a price point that will enable me to re-sale for no/very little loss and try those items out. There are so many options.....so many differing opinions and many different systems that those options can be used within.

I can personally attest to this as i have tried all kinds of gear that people recommended. Multiple shelters, packs, and various other gear later i have found what works best for me. This didn't happen in one over-niter either, it took many trips to narrow things down.