Where are the bucks?

[cjdewese]

Hey guys, I am a fairly new hunter that has been trying to figure out the game in Southern California D Zones which are brutal.

This is my 5th season, I've been successful for 2 of them and shot a buck with my bow and wasn't able to recover that deer another season. i have a great area of private land that I've found they use for safety and I've been able to find a few trails they are using for private to public and sitting those for bow season has worked out ok so far but I feel like I am missing something. Each year I find, see and interact with well over 100 does from the beginning of archery through the end of rifle but have 1-2 interactions with bucks each year.

This weekend was opener, I saw 23 does had 4 encounters at less than 30 yards but saw zero bucks. Yesterday I spent some time walking through the thicker stuff on the outside of where I was finding the does but no luck finding much sign.

So my question is this, early season, what type of terrain should I be looking in and around to try and find the bucks. This is the 1st time I am seriously rifle hunting and would like to try and find some better bucks to target during with a rifle when the time comes.

I have heard steep and thick and I get that, but do the bucks need space between bushes to pass through or are they in those really impacted areas?

Thanks in advance for any knowledge that you are willing to share.

 

[Harvey_NW]

No experience hunting CA, but it's possible the bucks just aren't there. Whether it be a migratory or concealment type situation, I would focus on finding sign in areas of heavy cover with shade and feed. Not uncommon for them to be stealthy in the early season and only get very limited opportunities to see them on the hoof. I would revert to heavy glassing of nastier country in the very first and last hours of light if possible. If glassing isn't really an option I would say it gets pretty tough, but you're probably more likely to bump one in cover than to catch one walking down the trail in the middle of the day, IME anyway.

 

[dancyr3]

Get up as high as you can, glass the 3/4 of the ridges, draws. If it’s hot look under a lone tree or a few trees, cutbacks. I’m assuming you are hunting black tails? They usually can be snuck up on little easier than muleys (IMO) so you can always slow hunt through the thick stuff midday. They will be out of the cover but very close to it at first light

 

[AM_Hunter]

Things are getting interesting considering many of the SoCal D zones are currently on fire. That with the smoke is probably making them act different. For some reason, i seem to find bucks (in the rare chances ive seen them out here) near humans and structure during the early season. If youre far from houses or camps or cabins the best bet is to find nasty ridges and canyons and glass them early morning and late afternoon. They may still be bachelor'd up in your zone. We glassed up two bucks together in our Zone in some nasty looking rocks right after a storm came in and the rain stopped.

Good luck!

 

[RockAndSage]

I feel bad in saying this, but two things stand out: When you're first on the ground, and how much you seem to be moving.

Right now, mid-September? This isn't "early in the season" for finding bucks - it's way late in the game. Don't let this de-motivate you, but it's important to know. If at all possible, unless there's a really big migration in your zone, it's best to be scouting as early as mid-late May and all through June, when their coats are red and they just stand out much better visually. When in velvet bucks tend to bachelor-group up more out in the open (but in the shade), to protect their antlers while they're softer and more easily damaged. They're relying more on a type of group security, even older mature ones. You want to know exactly where they are when they're red and in velvet. When they go hard horn is also about the time their coats go gray-ghost, and they go deeper into the brush when and often "disappear". That's a rookie mistake to assume they're gone though - they're still in that same general area as long as there's still food there, they're just more alert, more wary, and physically harder to see from mid-Sept onward.

Second, is that if you're seeing all those does, but not seeing bucks, that's because the bucks are seeing/hearing/smelling you. The more sparse the food plots are in that geography, the more true that will be, because they're all racing against winter to pack on the pounds, and need to eat pretty much the same thing. The bucks will tend to be higher than the does during the day, however, in the shade, with a great view of everything below them. If you're just kind of walking from place to place, trying to turn up a buck - especially bowhunting - it's not a very high-success approach. That's like walking around a neighborhood, hoping to run into the exact person on the street you're hoping to run into. Instead, you want to know their exact address - and that's what scouting is for. Finding their house.

For better success, and regarding what to do right now in mid-sept to find bucks now that they're largely transitioned to gray and are starting to transition from velvet to hard-horn, try some version of this formula:

1) Use OnX or other hunt mapping software, and find the food. You may have to google around to find out what they're eating this time of year in your specific geography, but if you're in desert D zone areas, look for the green on the maps. When you find promising stands of green (especially those in low spots, with higher rock outcroppings around), drop pins on those, and map out a good part of the area you want to hunt.

2) Look for access routes into those areas, and use the route-mapping tool to lay out your intended path by vehicle.

3) Within that area and relative to your access, start mapping out good glassing spots over those food sources. Very specific, deliberate spots you want to glass, and where you want to glass from. Then use the route-mapping tool to draw yourself a very specific route from one glassing spot to another. This way you're not wandering around, but are very specifically focused on sneaking from one spot to another.

4) Be at the first glassing spot at least 30 minute before light.

5) NEVER, ever skyline yourself. Sneak over any crests by crawling below brush-height, and set up your glassing site below the visual crest of the hill. You want deer to only see brush, rock, or dirt behind you, from any angle. Even better if you can find a place in the shadows, both for extra difficulty in being seen, and for your own personal comfort.

6) Hunt high, hunt the shade. Think of the sun as a magic death ray to desert deer - they're very averse to it, and live in the shade during the day to avoid it. The only time you'll usually see them during the day (besides being bumped) is when they're getting up to adjust their bed to get out of the sun that has shifted on them. Look for higher locations around you, especially north-facing slopes, that will be in the shade all day.

7) When glassing, adjust your position 10-20 feet in any direction once or twice before leaving, after you've glassed for awhile - it's common to have things like antler tines, ear-tips, and hooves appear just by moving two or three feet left or right. Deliberately changing position 10-20 feet at least once per glassing spot is good procedure.

8) Sneak in and out of each glassing spot, and go slow.

9) The wind rules everything - always be hyper aware of its direction. You can often fool a buck's eyes, and sometimes their ears, but you will never, ever fool their nose.


There are a lot more fine points, but that's a pretty good template. The only major adjustment I personally make to any of what you see above, is at the first of my pre-season scouting, which is off the table for you this year. What I do after mapping out the food plots is to actually get down into them on foot, and scout like crazy for any sign of deer. Paying particular attention to the big, blocky prints of big, older, heavier bucks. Depending on the zone's geography, I'll hit up to a dozen a day sometimes, just looking for sign - and cover a heck of a lot more territory than if I was just glassing. I'm not worried about bumping anything, because anything big that might be there will be there when I come back weeks or months later. But what it also does is rule out places mountain lions have been haunting. There's been way too many times I've gone into absolutely amazing feed plots, only to find zero deer sign, but do find cat prints.

 

[cjdewese]

I feel bad in saying this, but two things stand out: When you're first on the ground, and how much you seem to be moving.

Right now, mid-September? This isn't "early in the season" for finding bucks - it's way late in the game. Don't let this de-motivate you, but it's important to know. If at all possible, unless there's a really big migration in your zone, it's best to be scouting as early as mid-late May and all through June, when their coats are red and they just stand out much better visually. When in velvet bucks tend to bachelor-group up more out in the open (but in the shade), to protect their antlers while they're softer and more easily damaged. They're relying more on a type of group security, even older mature ones. You want to know exactly where they are when they're red and in velvet. When they go hard horn is also about the time their coats go gray-ghost, and they go deeper into the brush when and often "disappear". That's a rookie mistake to assume they're gone though - they're still in that same general area as long as there's still food there, they're just more alert, more wary, and physically harder to see from mid-Sept onward.

Second, is that if you're seeing all those does, but not seeing bucks, that's because the bucks are seeing/hearing/smelling you. The more sparse the food plots are in that geography, the more true that will be, because they're all racing against winter to pack on the pounds, and need to eat pretty much the same thing. The bucks will tend to be higher than the does during the day, however, in the shade, with a great view of everything below them. If you're just kind of walking from place to place, trying to turn up a buck - especially bowhunting - it's not a very high-success approach. That's like walking around a neighborhood, hoping to run into the exact person on the street you're hoping to run into. Instead, you want to know their exact address - and that's what scouting is for. Finding their house.

For better success, and regarding what to do right now in mid-sept to find bucks now that they're largely transitioned to gray and are starting to transition from velvet to hard-horn, try some version of this formula:

1) Use OnX or other hunt mapping software, and find the food. You may have to google around to find out what they're eating this time of year in your specific geography, but if you're in desert D zone areas, look for the green on the maps. When you find promising stands of green (especially those in low spots, with higher rock outcroppings around), drop pins on those, and map out a good part of the area you want to hunt.

2) Look for access routes into those areas, and use the route-mapping tool to lay out your intended path by vehicle.

3) Within that area and relative to your access, start mapping out good glassing spots over those food sources. Very specific, deliberate spots you want to glass, and where you want to glass from. Then use the route-mapping tool to draw yourself a very specific route from one glassing spot to another. This way you're not wandering around, but are very specifically focused on sneaking from one spot to another.

4) Be at the first glassing spot at least 30 minute before light.

5) NEVER, ever skyline yourself. Sneak over any crests by crawling below brush-height, and set up your glassing site below the visual crest of the hill. You want deer to only see brush, rock, or dirt behind you, from any angle. Even better if you can find a place in the shadows, both for extra difficulty in being seen, and for your own personal comfort.

6) Hunt high, hunt the shade. Think of the sun as a magic death ray to desert deer - they're very averse to it, and live in the shade during the day to avoid it. The only time you'll usually see them during the day (besides being bumped) is when they're getting up to adjust their bed to get out of the sun that has shifted on them. Look for higher locations around you, especially north-facing slopes, that will be in the shade all day.

7) When glassing, adjust your position 10-20 feet in any direction once or twice before leaving, after you've glassed for awhile - it's common to have things like antler tines, ear-tips, and hooves appear just by moving two or three feet left or right. Deliberately changing position 10-20 feet at least once per glassing spot is good procedure.

8) Sneak in and out of each glassing spot, and go slow.

9) The wind rules everything - always be hyper aware of its direction. You can often fool a buck's eyes, and sometimes their ears, but you will never, ever fool their nose.


There are a lot more fine points, but that's a pretty good template. The only major adjustment I personally make to any of what you see above, is at the first of my pre-season scouting, which is off the table for you this year. What I do after mapping out the food plots is to actually get down into them on foot, and scout like crazy for any sign of deer. Paying particular attention to the big, blocky prints of big, older, heavier bucks. Depending on the zone's geography, I'll hit up to a dozen a day sometimes, just looking for sign - and cover a heck of a lot more territory than if I was just glassing. I'm not worried about bumping anything, because anything big that might be there will be there when I come back weeks or months later. But what it also does is rule out places mountain lions have been haunting. There's been way too many times I've gone into absolutely amazing feed plots, only to find zero deer sign, but do find cat prints.

Really appreciate you taking the time for this and agree on a lot of what you said and the critiques you have. In years past I was able to do a lot more scouting and have taken bow hunting this year as a scouting opportunity for rifle, may not be the best solution.
Definitely given me a few things to think about so I really appreciate it. Good luck this season.

 

[RockAndSage]

Really appreciate you taking the time for this and agree on a lot of what you said and the critiques you have. In years past I was able to do a lot more scouting and have taken bow hunting this year as a scouting opportunity for rifle, may not be the best solution.
Definitely given me a few things to think about so I really appreciate it. Good luck this season.

Very glad to help, good luck on your hunts

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

There is a decent California buck in this photo through my binos. I glassed this ridge all morning and never saw him until he moved quickly from one shade pocket to another and bedded back down. If I hadn’t been looking in that exact area I would have never seen him and likely moved onto the next ridge.



In CA, the bucks are more than likely right where you already are.

He didn’t stand up and show himself again until just before dark. I killed him at 630 yards.

 

[bretrinehart]

Up in Norcal the bucks are in the 1-3 year old burns feeding at first light and otherwise holed up in the brush. Get to a glassing point in the dark and you have 15-30 mins to see them before they disappear into the brush. Other options is to just head into the brush and bump one out of its bed. Look for fresh sign and trails and hone in from there. Good luck out there.

 

[cjdewese]

There is a decent California buck in this photo through my binos. I glassed this ridge all morning and never saw him until he moved quickly from one shade pocket to another and bedded back down. If I hadn’t been looking in that exact area I would have never seen him and likely moved onto the next ridge.

View attachment 775732

In CA, the bucks are more than likely right where you already are.

He didn’t stand up and show himself again until just before dark. I killed him at 630 yards.

Care to share a pic of the buck? 630, nice shot.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Care to share a pic of the buck? 630, nice shot.

Thanks. PM incoming.

 

[AM_Hunter]

The bucks we found during Archery this year in the desert didnt show up again in the same spots for opening Rifle. Lack of rain water pushed them closer to the nearest spring, and opening day 4 got taken in that area, which pushed them further away. We found them about a mile past the spring at a small mountain range that had cover but still close enough to get to the water if needed. My buddy and i were able to each take one.

Moral of the story water and hunting pressure allowed us to predict where they were going to end up. If water is scarce, find an area that has water nearby and thick cover within range and try to find a spot where you can spot them moving to and from in the early AM or late evening.

 

[PointlessArcher]

I feel bad in saying this, but two things stand out: When you're first on the ground, and how much you seem to be moving.

Right now, mid-September? This isn't "early in the season" for finding bucks - it's way late in the game. Don't let this de-motivate you, but it's important to know. If at all possible, unless there's a really big migration in your zone, it's best to be scouting as early as mid-late May and all through June, when their coats are red and they just stand out much better visually. When in velvet bucks tend to bachelor-group up more out in the open (but in the shade), to protect their antlers while they're softer and more easily damaged. They're relying more on a type of group security, even older mature ones. You want to know exactly where they are when they're red and in velvet. When they go hard horn is also about the time their coats go gray-ghost, and they go deeper into the brush when and often "disappear". That's a rookie mistake to assume they're gone though - they're still in that same general area as long as there's still food there, they're just more alert, more wary, and physically harder to see from mid-Sept onward.

Second, is that if you're seeing all those does, but not seeing bucks, that's because the bucks are seeing/hearing/smelling you. The more sparse the food plots are in that geography, the more true that will be, because they're all racing against winter to pack on the pounds, and need to eat pretty much the same thing. The bucks will tend to be higher than the does during the day, however, in the shade, with a great view of everything below them. If you're just kind of walking from place to place, trying to turn up a buck - especially bowhunting - it's not a very high-success approach. That's like walking around a neighborhood, hoping to run into the exact person on the street you're hoping to run into. Instead, you want to know their exact address - and that's what scouting is for. Finding their house.

For better success, and regarding what to do right now in mid-sept to find bucks now that they're largely transitioned to gray and are starting to transition from velvet to hard-horn, try some version of this formula:

1) Use OnX or other hunt mapping software, and find the food. You may have to google around to find out what they're eating this time of year in your specific geography, but if you're in desert D zone areas, look for the green on the maps. When you find promising stands of green (especially those in low spots, with higher rock outcroppings around), drop pins on those, and map out a good part of the area you want to hunt.

2) Look for access routes into those areas, and use the route-mapping tool to lay out your intended path by vehicle.

3) Within that area and relative to your access, start mapping out good glassing spots over those food sources. Very specific, deliberate spots you want to glass, and where you want to glass from. Then use the route-mapping tool to draw yourself a very specific route from one glassing spot to another. This way you're not wandering around, but are very specifically focused on sneaking from one spot to another.

4) Be at the first glassing spot at least 30 minute before light.

5) NEVER, ever skyline yourself. Sneak over any crests by crawling below brush-height, and set up your glassing site below the visual crest of the hill. You want deer to only see brush, rock, or dirt behind you, from any angle. Even better if you can find a place in the shadows, both for extra difficulty in being seen, and for your own personal comfort.

6) Hunt high, hunt the shade. Think of the sun as a magic death ray to desert deer - they're very averse to it, and live in the shade during the day to avoid it. The only time you'll usually see them during the day (besides being bumped) is when they're getting up to adjust their bed to get out of the sun that has shifted on them. Look for higher locations around you, especially north-facing slopes, that will be in the shade all day.

7) When glassing, adjust your position 10-20 feet in any direction once or twice before leaving, after you've glassed for awhile - it's common to have things like antler tines, ear-tips, and hooves appear just by moving two or three feet left or right. Deliberately changing position 10-20 feet at least once per glassing spot is good procedure.

8) Sneak in and out of each glassing spot, and go slow.

9) The wind rules everything - always be hyper aware of its direction. You can often fool a buck's eyes, and sometimes their ears, but you will never, ever fool their nose.


There are a lot more fine points, but that's a pretty good template. The only major adjustment I personally make to any of what you see above, is at the first of my pre-season scouting, which is off the table for you this year. What I do after mapping out the food plots is to actually get down into them on foot, and scout like crazy for any sign of deer. Paying particular attention to the big, blocky prints of big, older, heavier bucks. Depending on the zone's geography, I'll hit up to a dozen a day sometimes, just looking for sign - and cover a heck of a lot more territory than if I was just glassing. I'm not worried about bumping anything, because anything big that might be there will be there when I come back weeks or months later. But what it also does is rule out places mountain lions have been haunting. There's been way too many times I've gone into absolutely amazing feed plots, only to find zero deer sign, but do find cat prints.

This is a great write up. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Anywhere away from the Doe herd outside of the rut. Does are communal, Bucks are not. If you’re seeing a ton of does you’re not where the buck are if you’re outside the rut.

I’d look at isolated micro points and knobs. By micro points i mean a tiny finger of a “point” that juts off of a larger main point. If it has a feasible escape route off the back end of it even better. Thats a likely spot where the Bucks will be bedding. I’d also look for spots that are not frequented by people or other deer. I’d stay away from those trails until the rut.

Another surprising trick i use. Hunt near homes. I know it sound crazy but look for homes and then target the 30-40 acres behind them. You’d be surprised how tight a buck will bed if the homeowner sticks to their yard. Set up not right behind the house but just outside that 30-40 acre bubble. You want to be close as he won’t make it far from his bed in daylight but you don’t want to be in his bedroom either. If you bump one every once in awhile you know you’re pretty much doing it right.

Good luck.