When to throw in the towel on a load development

[ndayton]

I couldn’t get the 215’s to shoot with different powders and primers so I switched to the 208 and 212’s. I settled on the 208’s because I found more of them and with 76 grains of H1000 .02 off I was just under 1 inch with fed 215m primer I switched to cci 250 and my groups and ES shrunk. I averaged 2977 with an ES of 19. What primers are you using?

I am using CCI LRM #250

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

I am using CCI LRM #250

Do you have any Fed 215m or others to try?

 

[ndayton]

Unfortu

Do you have any Fed 215m or others to try?

Unfortunately I don't have any other magnum primers but do have Fed210 not sure how well those would do though

 

[sneaky]

Again new to reloading so I may be using YouTube lingo but velocity node meaning a powder charge that if you were +/- on the charge weight there wouldn't be a significant change in velocity. Brass prep is Hornady 1x fired brass from the same rifle wet tumbled lubed and FL resized, trimmed if over 2.610 de-burred.
I did clean the rifle bore before testing but didn't remove all the copper fouling before testing as I haven't found it to effect accuracy before with factory ammo.
Currently the barrel has had the copper fouling cleaned but I haven't shot it yet. I will also note the H4831 is loaded at Hornady max listed where the H1000 is not.

Hornady brass is pretty inconsistent. Have you checked necks on them?

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[doverpack12]

I would call 76.4-77 your node for powder charge. Load 76.7 gr.
you said you stopped loading shorter at Sami COAL? Why? Keep going shorter. 0.01” increments will get you there but take longer than 0.02 or 0.03”. Take that depth back to 0.15” off the lands.
some powders just don’t like bullet and barrel combos.
whichever seating depth you found best with 4831 won’t change that is consistent between the bullet and barrel regardless of powder.

 

[cmcpherson]

no pattern really as far as stringing usually I will have 3 shots of 4 shots at MOA with one opening it up to 1.5-2.5 moa and there is no sequence to the "flyer" could be the first shot or 3rd. As far as the gun its a Xbolt long range 1-8 twist factory trigger with aftermarket trigger spring, gun has always shot about 1 moa with factory ammo and currently seems to shoot sub moa with H4831 and the same 212 ELDx bullets.

I have same rifle setup and my data is for 212 eldx using h1000 is
Norma brass
215m primers
H1000 77.2 gn
3.6 coal
2969 avg fps
Shoot about 0.5 moa, low es, no pressure signs. I'd try switching brass, unknown munitions just got in some norma 300 win brass.

 

[ndayton]

Hornady brass is pretty inconsistent. Have you checked necks on them?

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I haven't, not sure how I would go about doing that.

 

[ndayton]

I have same rifle setup and my data is for 212 eldx using h1000 is
Norma brass
215m primers
H1000 77.2 gn
3.6 coal
2969 avg fps
Shoot about 0.5 moa, low es, no pressure signs. I'd try switching brass, unknown munitions just got in some norma 300 win brass.

Definitely leaning towards better brass and even a different bullet selection just cant be to picky in times like these with limited resources.

 

[ndayton]

I would call 76.4-77 your node for powder charge. Load 76.7 gr.
you said you stopped loading shorter at Sami COAL? Why? Keep going shorter. 0.01” increments will get you there but take longer than 0.02 or 0.03”. Take that depth back to 0.15” off the lands.
some powders just don’t like bullet and barrel combos.
whichever seating depth you found best with 4831 won’t change that is consistent between the bullet and barrel regardless of powder.

I didn't want to run the risk of pressure spikes from compressing the bullet to much and honestly this is all new to me so I am wanting to avoid a dangerous mishap. If I had prepper level of supplies I would do a lot more thorough testing but at the rate I have been going this will be a mute point as I will run out of bullets to test.

 

[Wrench]

I'm confused. You can pull off .5" with 4831 but want to chase h1000 around? If I get a factory tube in the .7 and under area, I'll feed it whatever it wants.

4831 is a damn good powder and if it is remotely close on sd /es I'd run it and never look back.

 

[doverpack12]

I didn't want to run the risk of pressure spikes from compressing the bullet to much and honestly this is all new to me so I am wanting to avoid a dangerous mishap. If I had prepper level of supplies I would do a lot more thorough testing but at the rate I have been going this will be a mute point as I will run out of bullets to test.

you are moving farther away from the lands and plenty of jump. Pressure will not spike on you doing this.
If you are compressed where you stopped seating deeper then it might not do much good to seat deeper.

 

[Limber]

I had the opposite of you in my 300 win. Shooting 210 ablr with 4831/4831sc would not group at all but h1000 would. With 4831 I was looking at 1-2.5 inch groups but h1000 groups is at .5 inch groups. 4831 will shoot great group for me at with 180's and 190's

 

[Trippy]

you are moving farther away from the lands and plenty of jump. Pressure will not spike on you doing this.
If you are compressed where you stopped seating deeper then it might not do much good to seat deeper.

This is what I get in QL with the 212 grain (1.600" OAL) ELD-X at SAAMI COAL of 3.340". Pretty compressed load with H1000, aside from the pressure concerns.

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 89 61.36 2327 2441 30939 8954 90.7 1.716
-18.0 91 62.89 2391 2577 33203 9253 92.1 1.666
-16.0 94 64.43 2455 2717 35653 9537 93.5 1.618
-14.0 96 65.96 2520 2863 38289 9804 94.8 1.568
-12.0 98 67.50 2585 3012 41169 10053 95.9 1.514
-10.0 100 69.03 2650 3166 44277 10280 96.9 1.463
-08.0 103 70.56 2716 3324 47655 10486 97.8 1.413
-06.0 105 72.10 2781 3486 51329 10667 98.5 1.365
-04.0 107 73.63 2846 3652 55333 10821 99.1 1.319 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 109 75.17 2912 3821 59707 10948 99.5 1.275 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 112 76.70 2977 3994 64494 11046 99.8 1.232 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 114 78.23 3042 4170 69746 11112 100.0 1.190 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 116 79.77 3106 4349 75529 11150 100.0 1.150 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0 118 81.30 3171 4531 81909 11179 100.0 1.111 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+08.0 120 82.84 3235 4716 88973 11201 100.0 1.073 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+10.0 123 84.37 3299 4905 96822 11216 100.0 1.037 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

 

[hereinaz]

The barrel is a 26inch factory barrel that is now cleaned down to the metal so it should be free of carbon and copper fouling I don't have a bore scope but I would think if you are getting copper out of the rifling then it should clean out a carbon ring in the throat if there was one.
I am shooting with the same rest and rear bad that I always use and I did not disassemble the rifle to clean it however I did recheck the torque on my action screws and they were good.
H4831 H1000
68.9-2717 | 74.8-2773
69.3-2724 | 75.1-2824
69.7-2747 | 75.4-2813
70.1-2768 | 75.7-2816
70.5-2782 | 76.1-2840
70.9-2797 | 76.4-2864
71.3-2824 | 76.7-2864
71.7-2844 | 77.0-2865
72.1-2867 | 77.3-2868
72.5-2858 | 77.6-2892

I have listed the range data I have recorded and will do another range session with the clean barrel to confirm accuracy with the H4831, I will also load some H1000 but at a lighter charge weight do you have a suggestion on what I should drop it to, I was thinking 76.3 grains?

I don't load for 300 wm, but I would match the good 4831 velocity just to see. I wouldn't burn components in this world.

A carbon ring in the throat can be very stubborn and require extra work, more than copper. A Teslong bore scope off Amazon isn't too expensive. Don't get all crazy with it, just look at the throat for the black ring. Bores are rarely perfect.

 

[ndayton]

I don't load for 300 wm, but I would match the good 4831 velocity just to see. I wouldn't burn components in this world.

A carbon ring in the throat can be very stubborn and require extra work, more than copper. A Teslong bore scope off Amazon isn't too expensive. Don't get all crazy with it, just look at the throat for the black ring. Bores are rarely perfect.

Thanks I will order one and see what I find.

 

[wind gypsy]

I'm confused. You can pull off .5" with 4831 but want to chase h1000 around? If I get a factory tube in the .7 and under area, I'll feed it whatever it wants.

4831 is a damn good powder and if it is remotely close on sd /es I'd run it and never look back.

^This. In my experience if you are chasing around little tweaks to find accuracy or a load has to have a narrow window of powder charge / seating depth to be accurate, you should abandon it because it probably wont be consistent.

I dont know if I've ever had a long term reliable bullet/powder combo that didn't just shoot well over a wide range of charges and seating depths. I'd settle on H4831 and call it good.

 

[ndayton]

^This. In my experience if you are chasing around little tweaks to find accuracy or a load has to have a narrow window of powder charge / seating depth to be accurate, you should abandon it because it probably wont be consistent.

I dont know if I've ever had a long term reliable bullet/powder combo that didn't just shoot well over a wide range of charges and seating depths. I'd settle on H4831 and call it good.

Thanks that's where my heads at on it, just wanted opinions from reloaders more experienced then me incase I missed something.
I am certainly not losing any sleep over it, but when it takes you 3 months to get your hands on powder I'm not so quick to throw my hands up and quit at the first sign of trouble.

 

[wind gypsy]

you are moving farther away from the lands and plenty of jump. Pressure will not spike on you doing this.
If you are compressed where you stopped seating deeper then it might not do much good to seat deeper.

Unless he has a very short throat, I have to guess SAAMI COAL with a 212 ELD is a pretty good jump already, over 0.100".