When are you done tinkering with a load?

[HairyScandinavian]

So I just started, unsurprisingly my Tikka 6.5 CM didn't offer me much tinkering and seems to just shoot acceptably almost everything I feed it. I've not done much at all except rule out n555 due to slow speeds with pressure. Seating everything 35 off the lands. Would you stop with these 10 round groups or keep tinkering? At this point I'm thinking I'm likely sitting at minute of trigger man and his old eyes so I fear even if I made improvements it may not translate to paper.
Top is 45gr Superformance at 2680ish and bottom is 41.5gr H4350 at 2625ish at 89 degrees. Neither have so much as a smudge on the brass for pressure signs.

 

[Taudisio]

If that’s acceptable velocity, those groups are acceptable to me, especially if you felt you were holding 1 moa that day.
For me with this specific example, I would retest at 50 degrees because 90% of my hunting is 40-60 degrees out. No change in groups, less than 20fps velocity difference (hot vs cold), and I would run it. Just pick the one that the velocity difference is less. I’d be leaning h4350 for the simple fact I don’t have any experience with superformance.

 

[Matt5266]

Those will both work! My opinion is keep rolling with which ever powder you have more of or just flip a coin

 

[HairyScandinavian]

If that’s acceptable velocity, those groups are acceptable to me, especially if you felt you were holding 1 moa that day.
For me with this specific example, I would retest at 50 degrees because 90% of my hunting is 40-60 degrees out. No change in groups, less than 20fps velocity difference (hot vs cold), and I would run it. Just pick the one that the velocity difference is less. I’d be leaning h4350 for the simple fact I don’t have any experience with superformance.

Both are faster than factory Hornady which I've been shooting at 2579 in TX and 2535 (trued to 500) out West. I actually may have one last opportunity here in TX on Saturday to test in 45 degrees, but I'm cooking a dang crawfish boil for my son's birthday. Might could get out at 55ish degrees on Sunday. After that I'll have to test in Wyoming or CO in October for colder temps because we're done with them down here for now. I need more data points but based on small samples of shooting at 68 degrees and 89 degrees my calculator shows Super at 2604 fps at 25 degrees and 9200 feet and H4350 at 2585 for the same so if it holds and is repeatable I'm happy. I guess I'll probably load a bunch of both to haul up there with me and do some more shooting, fun.
Both of these shot 1/2" or less at 5 round sample size, these 10 round groups were kind of disappointing but I understand the 5's aren't enough.

 

[Taudisio]

Both are faster than factory Hornady which I've been shooting at 2579 in TX and 2535 (trued to 500) out West. I actually may have one last opportunity here in TX on Saturday to test in 45 degrees, but I'm cooking a dang crawfish boil for my son's birthday. Might could get out at 55ish degrees on Sunday. After that I'll have to test in Wyoming or CO in October for colder temps because we're done with them down here for now. I need more data points but based on small samples of shooting at 68 degrees and 89 degrees my calculator shows Super at 2604 fps at 25 degrees and 9200 feet and H4350 at 2585 for the same so if it holds and is repeatable I'm happy. I guess I'll probably load a bunch of both to haul up there with me and do some more shooting, fun.
Both of these shot 1/2" or less at 5 round sample size, these 10 round groups were kind of disappointing but I understand the 5's aren't enough.

So the calculator is showing superformance at nearly .75fps per degree of temperature change and h4350 at .4? You could always do some 2am velocity checks like my neighbors must be doing every weekend

I would lean towards h4350, but wouldn’t be concerned either way out to practical distances. Just get lots of good data with whichever you choose, practice a lot and go kill stuff.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Yeah I'm thinking I'll lean into the H with this rifle. Might try the Super with another rifle and 130's to see how fast it'll go. Super is cheaper but I need 45gr compared to 41.5 of the H.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

You're done, load up hundreds and go shoot

 

[Q_Sertorius]

You are done.

 

[sierracharlie338]

NEVER!!! There is always more to squeak out!!

Only you can decide what’s acceptable for your needs. As I get older it seems I have less interest in the minutia and more so in “meh, that’ll work”

For the majority of shooters that would be an acceptable load to go out and burn some powder. There might be a little speed left on the table but that may not be worth the squeeze for your needs.

 

[Okie_Poke]

Yes, I would be done with load development. Me personally, I would pick H4350 just because it's a known quantity to me in 6.5 Creedmoor. Load a bunch with H4350 and go shoot.

Just curious, how long of a barrel are you shooting? 16" or 18"? What bullet weight are you using? Asking as you said factory ammo was under 2600 fps, which is where my 18" Bergara is.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Yes, I would be done with load development. Me personally, I would pick H4350 just because it's a known quantity to me in 6.5 Creedmoor. Load a bunch with H4350 and go shoot.

Just curious, how long of a barrel are you shooting? 16" or 18"? What bullet weight are you using? Asking as you said factory ammo was under 2600 fps, which is where my 18" Bergara is.

This is a 20" Tikka and I'm sending 147 M's.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

NEVER!!! There is always more to squeak out!!

I may pickup some TMK in 153's or 130's... or both and try to come up with an alternate load, because it's sort of addicting.

 

[wapitibob]

I need to see how my rifle shoots at 600 and 800. 800 is more a novelty but 600 has to group.

 

[SDHNTR]

I woulda stopped at the first one. You’re done.

 

[huntnful]

Depends how much you like to tinker. If that's the bullet you wanted to shoot, at the speeds you were hoping to shoot it at, I'd call it good there. Take it long and monitor its consistency to make sure it's consistent enough for the max distance you'd be shooting.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I'm done tinkering when I reach (or come very close) MV goals and desired group size at 100. I know from others that this can be a false positive, but I've not had any issues in my limited experience so far. If 300 and 600 yard groups fell apart, I would certainly start investigating shooter error first and then tweak the load as a last resort.

 

[Tanner]

I’d take either one of those loads to 600 and see how the vertical looked. If it was under MOA vertically and made consistent impacts on 1.5-2MOA targets and POA/POI was intersecting to your liking… load a pile and call it good.

 

[Bowfinn]

The fastest way to shrink your groups further is to shot a couple 3 round groups, and don’t count any “fliers”. That should get you down to a 1/2-3/4 Moa rifle all day.

On a serous note I would take either group but lean towards h4350. Isn’t 41.5G of H4350 what Hornady had on their early boxes of the 140 Eld-m?

 

[HairyScandinavian]

The fastest way to shrink your groups further is to shot a couple 3 round groups, and don’t count any “fliers”. That should get you down to a 1/2-3/4 Moa rifle all day.

On a serous note I would take either group but lean towards h4350. Isn’t 41.5G of H4350 what Hornady had on their early boxes of the 140 Eld-m?

I wouldn't know that, do they use H4350 for factory? Interesting if so. With no pressure signs at 89 degrees I'm tempted to do some more testing with higher charges, but I had one really heavy bolt lift at 42.5gr (I think) when I was doing a ladder test so I dropped back. Tempting, but at the same time it's a CM not a PRC so not a speed demon. These were only my 3rd set ever of 6.5 CM reloads so thinking I should get experience and my process down before opening more rabbit holes.

Both of these same exact loads shot .5" and .42" with 5 round groups when doing the charge testing. The 10 round groups are humbling, 20 rounds will be more humbling when I get to them so maybe I'll just skip that and shoot steel at 600. When I look at the groups in the OP, it's unlikely to shoot 3 at the extreme edges of the group so I can pick almost any 3 shots and all be real tight, very good visual in my mind on why the 3's and even 5's just don't reflect the whole picture. I can also see why the 3 round groups people always post seem to wander around the POA here and there every time they post one. I'm forever scarred and can't unsee it now.

 

[dirtknap]

I started handloading 20 yrs ago. I never owned a chronograph until last year. For many years I loaded rounds for my 300 wsm using info I found online on reloading forums and published data. Always settled on a load that showed little to no pressure signs. (I would load several rounds with varying amounts of powder to near max). Usually a grain or two below published max. Its funny, I bought my kimber 8400 used practically brand new at a pawn shop for $600. Guy said it wouldn't Group. I got it shooting .5 Moa with 185 bergers atop rl22. Superb shooting gun still. I stopped when I hit .5 moa at 400 yds. I got lucky with my combo...the gun likes the load and heavy bullets with slower burning powders. Can't even find rl 22 now since govt contract...glad I bought a 5#'er a few years ago. I reload for every center fire I own. Its not hard to get accuracy and velocity with all the published data now days