What would cause a rifle to shoot this poorly?

[35WhelenAI]

He also said he shot a bunch of lake city thru it

The reason for what I said was the gun was purchased in the 1970's, and was clearly new when he got it, well after the 1970's... That says there was no 1970s copper in it. Lake City ammo being used has nothing in common with copper from the 1970's.

Sometimes info is missed when a thread is read fast or a poster isn't paying attention to the whole thread from the beginning, apologies if I wasn't clear as to why I posted like I did.

Anyway, get a good solid platform/support by bedding the action.

 

[AlpineBeard]

Lots of good ideas in here. Also… Firing pin springs that loose their punch can lead to inconsistent primer ignition and cause poor accuracy at times.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

The reason for what I said was the gun was purchased in the 1970's, and was clearly new when he got it, well after the 1970's... That says there was no 1970s copper in it. Lake City ammo being used has nothing in common with copper from the 1970's.

Sometimes info is missed when a thread is read fast or a poster isn't paying attention to the whole thread from the beginning, apologies if I wasn't clear as to why I posted like I did.

Anyway, get a good solid platform/support by bedding the action.

I think we’ve all read a thread or three too fast lol. No worries there. He did state when he got it, it was basically unfired new. But he shot the lake city thru it once he acquired it. I do think bedding it will help as well. And a good scrubbing

 

[wyosteve]

Lots of good advice, but post-64 model 70's were not necessarily known for quality or accuracy. I bought one of the first Winlite (I think that's what they were called) with a synthetic stock and it shot horribly. Pulled the action and there was a 'big drop' of epoxy in the receiver lug channel from the factory. That was their 'bedding' method back then. After cleaning that out and properly bedding it shot much better, but never as good as my Rem. 700's.

 

[False_Cast]

Seems like there’s a lot higher of a likelihood that it’s an optics and or mount issue than anything above. It so often is.

 

[Unckebob]

Seems like there’s a lot higher of a likelihood that it’s an optics and or mount issue than anything above. It so often is.

After a good cleaning and making sure the action screws were properly torqued:
1) Inspect the crown to make sure it didn't get jacked up during all that time in the safe,
2) check the scope holes to make sure they are aligned with the barrel,
3) install new mounts and the scope,
4) If that didn't work, have the scope rings lapped and mounted by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[35WhelenAI]

After a good cleaning and making sure the action screws were properly torqued:
1) Inspect the crown to make sure it didn't get jacked up during all that time in the safe,
2) check the scope holes to make sure they are aligned with the barrel,
3) install new mounts and the scope,
4) If that didn't work, have the scope rings lapped and mounted by someone who knows what they are doing.

All good advice.

Crown is important, despite a post early on that said bedding wasn't gonna fix it and don't even think about it being the crown.

Question on the scope base holes in the receiver: They could be off, however wouldn't that cause issues with scope adjustability vs the inherent accuracy of the rifle? Especially since both scopes performed the same after complete take down and reassembly of the mounting system.

Good suggestion of lapping the mounts, it's an easy thing to do with a kit from Midway. Good to do especially with mounting system from the 1970's, tolerances may not have been as uniform back then.

Or after all is said and done, as was said earlier, the rifle just may not be a shooter. No matter the bedding, mounts, lapping, crown or any other factors.

 

[grfox92]

So when I initially tore the gun down to clean it and remount a new scope, I did not remove the weaver 1 piece rail. I just ensured it was torqued down and mounted a new scope in new rings.

Tearing the gun down now in preparation for bedding and to thoroughly go through everything, I removed the rail and found what you see below in the pictures.

1. Around the rear screw holes there are markings where it looks like the bluing has worn off. Base maybe moving?

Under the rail also looked very greasy and oily. Not sure why, but it's got me thinking.

2. Where the pencil is pointing into the stock, around where the mag well sits in the stock there was some type of finish, clear coat maybe? That I scraped away with a chisel. Think peeling Clear coat on an old car.

I'm setting up to soak the barrel with Hoppes Elite Foam and run a few patches. I'll report back on what it looks like.


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[grfox92]

First few patches with Hoppes

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[35WhelenAI]

Was that after the previous cleanings but before shooting the gun again? Looks normal for cleaning a recently fired gun if you did put some rounds through it. I wouldn't give it another thought, the issue is elsewhere,

On the scope base, oil has crept under there from cleanings, oiling and wiping down the action. The oil congeals/fine particles go in with the oil which gives the crusties. Can't avoid it, par for the course. Nothing wrong IME. Haven't not seen that on any number of guns when removing the bases.

The wear on the receiver top is from (most likely, IMO) the scope base itself having minor imperfections and not perfectly matching the contour of the receiver. Take some fine abrasive cloth, lay on top of the receiver with the abrasive side UP and gently/lightly slide the base fore and aft to remove imperfections. Weaver bases are aluminum so it should be an easy thing. With that said, wear is a sign of movement but can't speak to how the rear could move, per se, if there aren't wear marks up front also.

 

[grfox92]

Was that after the previous cleanings but before shooting the gun again? Looks normal for cleaning a recently fired gun if you did put some rounds through it. I wouldn't give it another thought, the issue is elsewhere,

On the scope base, oil has crept under there from cleanings, oiling and wiping down the action. The oil congeals/fine particles go in with the oil which gives the crusties. Can't avoid it, par for the course. Nothing wrong IME. Haven't not seen that on any number of guns when removing the bases.

The wear on the receiver top is from (most likely, IMO) the scope base itself having minor imperfections and not perfectly matching the contour of the receiver. Take some fine abrasive cloth, lay on top of the receiver with the abrasive side UP and gently/lightly slide the base fore and aft to remove imperfections. Weaver bases are aluminum so it should be an easy thing. With that said, wear is a sign of movement but can't speak to how the rear could move, per se, if there aren't wear marks up front also.

Those patches are from right now at my bench. That residue is from the 20 or so rounds i fired today. The last cleaning I did was with the no name cleaner that came with a cheap gun cleaning kit. Maybe it wasn't removing copper.

I just filled the barrel with foam and will let sit until tomorrow after work.

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[Pickettpuncher]

Those patches are from right now at my bench. That residue is from the 20 or so rounds i fired today. The last cleaning I did was with the no name cleaner that came with a cheap gun cleaning kit. Maybe it wasn't removing copper.

I just filled the barrel with foam and will let sit until tomorrow after work.

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Just a heads up, read the label on your cleaner cause some cleaners shouldn’t be left in the barrel more than about 30 minutes. Just make sure it’s safe to do so.

 

[Stache Attack]

Adding an HS precision stock to my model 70 and having action trued. I later re barreled and it’s a sub 3/4 Moa gun. My howa had wild groups like that a stock cleared that one up. Interested to see what you find. Great action once you figure this problem out

 

[grfox92]

Adding an HS precision stock to my model 70 and having action trued. I later re barreled and it’s a sub 3/4 Moa gun. My howa had wild groups like that a stock cleared that one up. Interested to see what you find. Great action once you figure this problem out

Yes, I've looked at the HS. I'm currently cleaning up the inletting on the factory stock in preparation for bedding the action. Hopefully that fixes the issues, if not I will either sell or maybe do something custom with it.

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[grfox92]

Just a heads up, read the label on your cleaner cause some cleaners shouldn’t be left in the barrel more than about 30 minutes. Just make sure it’s safe to do so.

Will do. Thanks.

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[HuntHarder]

Crappy scope? Have you eliminated it as a possibility?

 

[grfox92]

Crappy scope? Have you eliminated it as a possibility?

Yea. I am about to move on to my 3rd scope.

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[Ehunter]

Let us know if it's a new rifle copper can be a issue until the barrel is smoothed out. I have a modle 70's 308 and it's a tack driver. How is the trigger pull is it heavy?

 

[BjornF16]

Any updates?

Think I'd bed that rail...

 

[grfox92]

I wanted to update this thread since there was a ton of support and great information posted.

I would have updated sooner, but honestly I didn't have any update to give. I've been extremely busy and never got to bedding the gun, for a few reasons.

The main one being, there isn't much I can do with the rifle to get what I want out of it even if it shoots good. The lack of aftermarket support for model 70s is puzzling to me, but still very real. There are very few stock companies supporting them and most that are available are heavier then the factory stock which is not what I'm going for.

I live and hunt in horse country and I don't have horses, so I'm doing what everyone does on horses on my two feet. I hunted hard with that gun for 1 season and the wood stock is more or less wrecked compared to what it was. The gun is heavy and I hate beating it up. I'm going to keep it in the safe and eventually when I have time, bed the gun and see how it shoots.

Until then, I bought a Ruger American in .308, put a Burris Fullfield II on it and have started reloading for it. I've got a load going that the gun seems to really like, just going to try a couple more tweaks to lock down the load and I'll start shooting every weekend.

Next up is a Tikka Ember in 300wsm with a Trijicon Credo or Nightforce SHV.

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate the community and the knowledge here.

Sidebar. The load I have going that the gun likes is 43.5gr of IMR4895 under Hornady ELDM 168gr. I'm going to try 43.3, 43.6, and 43.5 again and shoot them side by side.

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