What would cause a rifle to shoot this poorly?

[grfox92]

That's pretty fair for the rifle in question and many a guy hunted with those kinds of groups and stacked up piles of critters.

However, various things could be done to decrease group size. Start with kinds of ammo. If you reload, even better. I have a few rifles that shoot sub moa with certain loads and those kinds of groups with others.

I'm from back east where hitting a pie plate at 100 yards meant it was time to go hunting. That makes my stomach turn. I want my gun to hit exactly where I'm aiming it. Back in the eastern hardwoods that was acceptable, but in NW Wyoming on the Prarie or in the mountains I need better.

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[grfox92]

To my mind, there should be some consistency in the groups. Even if it liked the 150 Core Lokt for instance, a new box in a new year is probably not the same load it was before with respect to the same powder or charge weight, could be different primers, bullets aren't the same batch, etc.

Check for any contact with a dollar bill between the barrel and stock along the barrel channel. Most of all, just bed it yourself and go from there. One thing at a time as was shared.

Barrel is aggressively free floated.

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[HiMtnHntr]

I'm from back east where hitting a pie plate at 100 yards meant it was time to go hunting. That makes my stomach turn. I want my gun to hit exactly where I'm aiming it. Back in the eastern hardwoods that was acceptable, but in NW Wyoming on the Prarie or in the mountains I need better.

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Exactly. And there's plenty you can do. Start with trying different ammo.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Scrub the barrel good, check torque on the action screws, and get a box of FGMM 168gr. That ammo is the gold standard for 308 accuracy, I’ve never seen a rifle that didn’t like it. If it still doesn’t shoot I’d bed the recoil lug, that helps the Winchester’s a lot.

 

[Rich M]

What are you shooting off of? Bipods? Sand bags? One of those gun holder things - like a lead sled?

I have a buddy who shoots like that but he’s not exactly confortable shooting his 308 rifle.

Id put some sweets 762 thru it and shoot the core loct 150s to see if it is the gun or me or a junk scope.

Bring someone along who you know is a good shot and have him or her shoot 3 or 5 to see how it shoots for someone else.

 

[letrbuck]

Where in NW WY are you? Send me a PM, I might be able to help you out

And total round count is 300+ and never run a copper solvent through it?

I would start with a thorough bore scrubbing and copper solvent.

 

[Gargoyle]

Scrub the barrel good, check torque on the action screws, and get a box of FGMM 168gr. That ammo is the gold standard for 308 accuracy, I’ve never seen a rifle that didn’t like it. If it still doesn’t shoot I’d bed the recoil lug, that helps the Winchester’s a lot.

FACT. I keep a case of that on hand for troubleshooting 308s.

Get some Wipeout foam and bottle of accelerator. Let the mixture go overnight. Flush with alcohol on patches in the morning. Bore scope it.

 

[grfox92]

Where in NW WY are you? Send me a PM, I might be able to help you out

And total round count is 300+ and never run a copper solvent through it?

I would start with a thorough bore scrubbing and copper solvent.

I bought copper cleaner and a nylon brush the other day. I'll try that.

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[Wrench]

I didn't copper clean, just regular cleaner with patches. I didn't suspect copper fouling after 300 rounds.

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I unscrewed a bartlein with less than 150 rds because it would load with copper so bad it wouldn't shoot as good as yours.

It can happen.

I'd color my action andbase screws and make sure they don't touch the bolt or bottom out as step one.

 

[grfox92]

What are you shooting off of? Bipods? Sand bags? One of those gun holder things - like a lead sled?

I have a buddy who shoots like that but he’s not exactly confortable shooting his 308 rifle.

Id put some sweets 762 thru it and shoot the core loct 150s to see if it is the gun or me or a junk scope.

Bring someone along who you know is a good shot and have him or her shoot 3 or 5 to see how it shoots for someone else.

I'm shooting off bags and varying where the bag sits. I eliminated the bipod thinking I might be getting contact with it on. I wasn't but it anyway.

So I'm on my second scope now and have shot other rifles with greay consistency. I'm going to tear it down and pu a brand burris I have in the box on it, scub the barrel with copper remover and reassemble and retorque and give it one last go.

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[grfox92]

I unscrewed a bartlein with less than 150 rds because it would load with copper so bad it wouldn't shoot as good as yours.

It can happen.

I'd color my action andbase screws and make sure they don't touch the bolt or bottom out as step one.

Thanks Wrench I was going to PM you about this before I started the thread.

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[gbflyer]

Not uncommon for that rifle built in those days. Still a cool gun. My advice is to not mess with it, keep as is and shoot it sometimes. You can buy a rifle off the shelf today that will meet you expectations.

 

[gbflyer]

I see now it’s not sentimental. So one of the big problems those have is the bolt nose contacting the breach. You’ll see a rub on the bolt nose if you look closely. Also, the bolt lug lockup is generally heavy to one side, sometimes not even touching on one side. Very common. Action face on those is very random also. Sometimes .015-.020 out of square. They have a great trigger and safety. You can make a good shooter out of a PF model 70, not sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

[SDHNTR]

Bedding isn’t gonna fix that. In my opinion groups that big with various ammo types can’t be made to shoot MOA. I’d take this to a gunsmith and either have the barrel replaced or set back and re-chambered. Don’t let anyone tell you it could be the crown either, that’s not gonna cause those kind of groups.

I disagree. I've taken rifles that were worse shooters with poor inletting causing uneven stress and turned them into tack drivers with proper bedding.

 

[SDHNTR]

Clean it well with copper solvent. Bed it and reduce trigger pull. Done right, I bet it solves your problems. Shoot higher round count groups too. 3 shots doesnt tell you enough.

 

[grfox92]

Clean it well with copper solvent. Bed it and reduce trigger pull. Done right, I bet it solves your problems. Shoot higher round count groups too. 3 shots doesnt tell you enough.

Can I bed it with the factory action screws or do I need to buy those T Handle action screws specifically for bedding? Also should the gun be torqued to spec during the bedding process? I watched a few videos and guys just snugged up the action with those t handles and let it sit. It seems like it would be important to torque the gun to spec while the epoxy is setting up, maybe I'm wrong though

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[SDHNTR]

Can I bed it with the factory action screws or do I need to buy those T Handle action screws specifically for bedding? Also should the gun be torqued to spec during the bedding process? I watched a few videos and guys just snugged up the action with those t handles and let it sit. It seems like it would be important to torque the gun to spec while the epoxy is setting up, maybe I'm wrong though

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There are differing opinions on torque while bedding. Yes, you can use the stock action screws, just coat the heck out of em with release agent. Personally, I just gently sung them up and use surgical tubing stretched tight around the length of the action several times.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

No way I’d torque them while bedding it. I’ve got some bolts with the head cut off I use more as a guide, but surgical tubing would be better keeping things tight.

 

[Wrench]

Getting the screws started without bedding them into the action will be a trick. If you can't come up with bedding studs, I'd plug the front hole and bed the front only without the bolt. The rear could be installed loosely to center the action. Wrap the front with electric tape or the surgical tubing to set the mud.

Once cured, drill the hole out from the bottom of the stock. Unorthodox, but it'll work.

If buying studs....I'd go right to Darrell hollands bedding setup.

 

[SDHNTR]

Getting the screws started without bedding them into the action will be a trick. If you can't come up with bedding studs, I'd plug the front hole and bed the front only without the bolt. The rear could be installed loosely to center the action. Wrap the front with electric tape or the surgical tubing to set the mud.

Once cured, drill the hole out from the bottom of the stock. Unorthodox, but it'll work.

If buying studs....I'd go right to Darrell hollands bedding setup.

This is good advice. I do use studs to start the action into the wet epoxy and keep epoxy out of the receiver holes. Wrap the receiver with tight with surgical tubing and wait an hour or so for most of the ooze to stop. Then I remove the studs and put the factory action screws in, coated with release agent, and just gently snug them up and let cure. Probably not even necessary to use the screws.