What size grouping is “good enough” for you?

[RME]

I really don't see where 10 shots for grouping for me as I have never shot 10 times at an animal or even 5 times.. I used to shoot 5 shot groups and then switched to 3 and don't don't see where this is a disadvantage for hunting.

It has zero to do with how many shots you take at an animal. It's about learning how your rifle shoots for real. You're trying to determine it's cone of fire. Ultimately though it's up to you. If want to know what kind of precision your rifle is actually capable of, shoot more shots. Otherwise stick with 3.

 

[wapitibob]

Why mess around at 100yds? Wring it out where it'll work. Train at 600 shoot 400 and never look back.

When you shoot from the youth stakes you never have to face the reality of that .5" rifle actually being 2 moa at hunting distance.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I really don't see where 10 shots for grouping for me as I have never shot 10 times at an animal or even 5 times.. I used to shoot 5 shot groups and then switched to 3 and don't don't see where this is a disadvantage for hunting.

More shots into a group the better idea you have of what the gun is actually doing. For some rifles it makes sense to do. For some, IDGAF

 

[MTBackroads]

Check your platform first.

Take it apart put it back together deliberately. Make sure the bedded areas are going together properly. Check for binding anywhere, re-torque everything.

Then work the load.

 

[ColoBowHiker]

It has zero to do with how many shots you take at an animal. It's about learning how your rifle shoots for real. You're trying to determine it's cone of fire. Ultimately though it's up to you. If want to know what kind of precision your rifle is actually capable of, shoot more shots. Otherwise stick with 3.

This is exactly how I think about it too

 

[mt terry d]

These are 3 five shot groups I just did this afternoon (fire forming to AI)
Off sandbag and picnic table. As solid as I will ever get.
A little barrel mirage shooting the final 5 but not much

I shot 5, walked up to target & back. Reload mag, shoot, repeat

If I'd quit with the first 5 I could fool myself into thinking I have a
3/8 moa gun. Well, maybe I do. But probably I don't.
Either way, until the gun learns to shoot itself there's no way
to know just how precise it might be because I'm in the equation.
As long as I'm the trigger man it won't shoot any better than I'm able.
I think it's fair to say that applies to most everyone.

The first round of the second group is the outlier. My position was
not good. I reset myself and continued.

I see nothing wrong with shooting multiple 3-shot groups; just overlay them
so you can see what your 9 or twelve or 30 shot group is to get a realistic
example of your actual cone of fire.
Besides, how can you zero a rifle properly on a 3-shot group?

If me and my hunting round can keep a ten shot group in 1 1/4" under perfect
conditions ( bench/sandbags) I'm satisfied. The bullet and velocity are more important to me than bughole precision. So then if I can shoot </= 2 1/2 moa under field conditions
I feel pretty confident .

That's not to say I won't keep playing around with powder, seating depths, etc.
looking for that "magic" load.

 

[43.6N]

These are 3 five shot groups I just did this afternoon (fire forming to AI)
Off sandbag and picnic table. As solid as I will ever get.
A little barrel mirage shooting the final 5 but not much

I shot 5, walked up to target & back. Reload mag, shoot, repeat

If I'd quit with the first 5 I could fool myself into thinking I have a
3/8 moa gun. Well, maybe I do. But probably I don't.
Either way, until the gun learns to shoot itself there's no way
to know just how precise it might be because I'm in the equation.
As long as I'm the trigger man it won't shoot any better than I'm able.
I think it's fair to say that applies to most everyone.

The first round of the second group is the outlier. My position was
not good. I reset myself and continued.

I see nothing wrong with shooting multiple 3-shot groups; just overlay them
so you can see what your 9 or twelve or 30 shot group is to get a realistic
example of your actual cone of fire.
Besides, how can you zero a rifle properly on a 3-shot group?

If me and my hunting round can keep a ten shot group in 1 1/4" under perfect
conditions ( bench/sandbags) I'm satisfied. The bullet and velocity are more important to me than bughole precision. So then if I can shoot </= 2 1/2 moa under field conditions
I feel pretty confident .

That's not to say I won't keep playing around with powder, seating depths, etc.
looking for that "magic" load.

View attachment 1084281View attachment 1084282View attachment 1084283

Darn fine shooting.

 

[Reece123]

Why mess around at 100yds? Wring it out where it'll work. Train at 600 shoot 400 and never look back.

Ive only been reloading a few years, but ive never seen where a large group at 100 yards becomes a small group at 400 yards. I start at 100 yards to find the tightest group and once i've settled on one I'll start to train at different distances with different positions shooting that load.

When you shoot from the youth stakes you never have to face the reality of that .5" rifle actually being 2 moa at hunting distance.

Im not one to try and boast "ive got a .5" rifle" or "im a .5" Shooter" I simply enjoy being able to say "im confident with this gun and this distance that the bullet will go where it needs to go." I use 100 yards for tests and further for training purposes.

 

[elsb0048]

These may be relevant for ya:

What MOA is Truly Effective for Hunting Success?

The Hunt Backcountry Podcast · Chapter · 15m

open.spotify.com

Thread 'Painless load development (mine)' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/painless-load-development-mine.238400/

 

[Wrench]

Ive only been reloading a few years, but ive never seen where a large group at 100 yards becomes a small group at 400 yards. I start at 100 yards to find the tightest group and once i've settled on one I'll start to train at different distances with different positions shooting that load.

Im not one to try and boast "ive got a .5" rifle" or "im a .5" Shooter" I simply enjoy being able to say "im confident with this gun and this distance that the bullet will go where it needs to go." I use 100 yards for tests and further for training purposes.

How often do you shoot longer ranges? Guy has a minuteish rifle and in the hands of any competent rifleman a 1 moa rifle is going to be incredibly capable at farther than most will believe.

The group size of the rifle will fall well behind the skills in reading the conditions and shooting platform setup. You can put a one hole gun in the hands of a rookie and they won't be as effective as a rifleman on a moderately accurate rig.

I stand by my advice, try it and see how you do....or wear the damn thing out assuring yourself that it needs to be better.

Sincerely the guy who posted 4 second time of flight back to back impacts on a 10" gong with a 308....and 300 yard clay piegons with irons from a sidelock muzzleloader. I've seen a few things to get me there. I promise the advice is worth what you paid for it.

 

[ColPenguin]

Now the question is how the hell do yall keep your barrel cool enough for a 10 shot group in July in Texas? Or is the correct answer “don’t live in a 110 degree oven”?

I put together one of these DIY chamber coolers for $20 and pop it in there after taking 3-5 shots. Swap guns, check targets, repeat.

It just plugs into a USB battery bank I keep in my truck. It costs a fraction to slap this together compared to a fancy chamber cooler, some of which do not even support USB.

 

[Reece123]

Today’s 10 shot group. Eh, not very excited about it. 1.9”. Maybe it’ll do fine for a buggy gun but I’m not thrilled with it. Maybe time to try a different powder

 

[43.6N]

Today’s 10 shot group. Eh, not very excited about it. 1.9”. Maybe it’ll do fine for a buggy gun but I’m not thrilled with it. Maybe time to try a different powder

What are the details of your load?
It looks like it wants to group, but something is just not quite right.

Also, for 300-400yd shots, that will be plenty good as is.

 

[Reece123]

Today’s 10 shot group. Eh, not very excited about it. 1.9”. Maybe it’ll do fine for a buggy gun but I’m not thrilled with it. Maybe time to try a different powder

Or, anyone with this same rifle have 103 eldx just straight not work out?

 

[Reece123]

What are the details of your load?
It looks like it wants to group, but something is just not quite right.

42gr h4350
103 eldx
Dogtown brass (supposed to be the same as nosler)
Cci 200 primer
Seated to 2.220 BTOG

 

[Reece123]

42gr h4350
103 eldx
Dogtown brass (supposed to be the same as nosler)
Cci 200 primer
Seated to 2.220 BTOG

I should add that this is all brand new brass, first time being fired

 

[43.6N]

42gr h4350
103 eldx
Dogtown brass (supposed to be the same as nosler)
Cci 200 primer
Seated to 2.220 BTOG

How did you end up at that seating depth?
Figuring out where your lands start, and then seating .020”-.040” short would probably tighten up that group just a bit.

But again, for your stated goal of 300yd shots, you are already plenty good enough. I promise you can still hit milk jugs sized targets out to 500 with that load.

 

[43.6N]

I should add that this is all brand new brass, first time being fired

Ah, I’ve always seen resized brass be more consistent than virgin brass.

 

[Firestone]

Just about what I figured.

 

[Reece123]

How did you end up at that seating depth?
Figuring out where your lands start, and then seating .020”-.040” short would probably tighten up that group just a bit.

But again, for your stated goal of 300yd shots, you are already plenty good enough. I promise you can still hit milk jugs sized targets out to 500 with that load.

That’s .020” off the lands for this rifle and bullet. I tried .040 yesterday and the same powder charge went from 1.1” 3 shot group to like 1.8”