What size grouping is “good enough” for you?

[Reece123]

I have a 243 1:8 twist tikka I picked up. Factory stock with a 10 power Leupold. I’m developing a load for it and keep coming back to the same load that’s bouncing between .8” and 1.1” at 100 yards. This is on a set of bags, outdoor range in west Texas where the wind sucks constantly. I’m currently shooting 103 ELDX and h4350 with this load. Is this group size to be expected? The perfectionist in me says get it to .5-.75” groups consistently and call it good but I’m just not sure if that’s possible with this rifle and bullet. My 270 and 6.5 PRC are right at .75” and I’m happy with that. Is it reasonable to expect between .5-.75” groups with this rifle or is this about as good as it gets? This will mostly be a “buggy gun” shot distances between 100-300 yards.

 

[Steve300xcw]

I'd call it done

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I have a 243 1:8 twist tikka I picked up. Factory stock with a 10 power Leupold. I’m developing a load for it and keep coming back to the same load that’s bouncing between .8” and 1.1” at 100 yards. This is on a set of bags, outdoor range in west Texas where the wind sucks constantly. I’m currently shooting 103 ELDX and h4350 with this load. Is this group size to be expected? The perfectionist in me says get it to .5-.75” groups consistently and call it good but I’m just not sure if that’s possible with this rifle and bullet. My 270 and 6.5 PRC are right at .75” and I’m happy with that. Is it reasonable to expect between .5-.75” groups with this rifle or is this about as good as it gets? This will mostly be a “buggy gun” shot distances between 100-300 yards.

How many shots in your groups?

 

[Reece123]

How many shots in your groups?

So far, 3. I try to get the best 3 shot group I can and then go to a 5 or 10 shot just to confirm. I haven’t gone to bigger groups yet because I haven’t had this load show me it can be consistently .75 MOA but I’m starting to think that im asking too much from it

 

[Firestone]

Yeah I wouldn't be happy with a 3 shot 1" group. Try a 105 hybrid, if that won't shoot you need a new barrel lol (kind of joking, but not really)

 

[Q_Sertorius]

So far, 3. I try to get the best 3 shot group I can and then go to a 5 or 10 shot just to confirm. I haven’t gone to bigger groups yet because I haven’t had this load show me it can be consistently .75 MOA but I’m starting to think that im asking too much from it

Three-shot groups are statistically insignificant on the small end. I can pick out any three shots from a 10-shot group out of most of my hunting rifles that are touching. That doesn’t make it a 0.5 MOA rifle.

If I shot a 3-shot group at 1”, I would shoot more of the same load into that group.

On the other end, if my 3-shot group was over 2”, then I wouldn’t bother to shoot more of those loads through most center fire rifles.

Any 10-shot group under 1.5” makes me pretty happy. If I am reloading, I get really excited when I get 10-shot groups in the 0.8-1.1” range.

 

[Reece123]

I went back and looked at past groups and on both sets with said load, the 2 groups were as follows
Group 1 Shots 1 and 2 were .4”, 3rd shot made the group .85”

Group 2 shots 1 and 2 were .35”, 3rd shot made the group 1.1”.

Maybe I should load up 10 of the same and see if I can fill in an entire group that’s about 1” or less.

 

[Firestone]

If you have a 1" 3 shot group, your 10 shot group will likely be over 1.5" probably pushing 2"

 

[Matt5266]

Personally, im a little bit over anal about groups. I want 10 shots at 1 inch. Id settle for 1.2" but not super excited haha. So far ive been able to get all my guns at an inch for 10 shots

 

[Q_Sertorius]

If you have a 1" 3 shot group, your 10 shot group will likely be over 1.5" probably pushing 2"

No. A 3-shot group is rarely that determinative. A 1” 3-shot group could be a 30-shot 1” group. There’s not enough statistical probability to say that it will definitely get larger. For all you know, the first three shots are on the edge of the cone.

A 10-shot group gives you about 85% of the data you should want.

 

[Reece123]

No. A 3-shot group is rarely that determinative. A 1” 3-shot group could be a 30-shot 1” group. There’s not enough statistical probability to say that it will definitely get larger. For all you know, the first three shots are on the edge of the cone.

A 10-shot group gives you about 85% of the data you should want.

That’s kind of my thoughts at this point. Will give the 10 shot group a go and see how it turns out. Maybe my 3rd round that’s furthest out is a flyer that I pulled, or just the extreme edge. We will see! Now the question is how the hell do yall keep your barrel cool enough for a 10 shot group in July in Texas? Or is the correct answer “don’t live in a 110 degree oven”?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

That’s kind of my thoughts at this point. Will give the 10 shot group a go and see how it turns out. Maybe my 3rd round that’s furthest out is a flyer that I pulled, or just the extreme edge. We will see! Now the question is how the hell do yall keep your barrel cool enough for a 10 shot group in July in Texas? Or is the correct answer “don’t live in a 110 degree oven”?

Find some shade. Nothing says you have to shoot all ten shots rapid fire. But good modern hammer forged barrels don’t open up as they get hot. So, unless the mirage starts affecting my ability to see the target, I keep shooting.

 

[Firestone]

No. A 3-shot group is rarely that determinative. A 1” 3-shot group could be a 30-shot 1” group. There’s not enough statistical probability to say that it will definitely get larger. For all you know, the first three shots are on the edge of the cone.

A 10-shot group gives you about 85% of the data you should want.

He didnt shoot a group, he shot 2 groups. They are both about an 1". The chances that 2 consecutive three shot groups are all on the outside of his cone of fire is so statistically small.

OP go shoot a 10 rd group please

 

[Reece123]

He didnt shoot a group, he shot 2 groups. They are both about an 1". The chances that 2 consecutive three shot groups are all on the outside of his cone of fire is so statistically small.

OP go shoot a 10 rd group please

I’ll report back in a couple days with results!

 

[Wrench]

I'd stretch it out to 600 and see how it does. I seem to be really lucky with 1moa guns.

Don't let the internet drag you down, go shoot rocks!

 

[MallardSX2]

1.5" group is good enough for me at this point in my life.

My opinion varies by the day though and especially depending on what gun and species I am planning on hunting.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I really don't see where 10 shots for grouping for me as I have never shot 10 times at an animal or even 5 times.. I used to shoot 5 shot groups and then switched to 3 and don't don't see where this is a disadvantage for hunting.

 

[Taudisio]

I really don't see where 10 shots for grouping for me as I have never shot 10 times at an animal or even 5 times.. I used to shoot 5 shot groups and then switched to 3 and don't don't see where this is a disadvantage for hunting.

Shoot 5 3 shot groups at the same target. That will be more representative of how well your gun shoots. 3 shot groups can be very misleading. It will really show when you start shooting long range. You could shoot the first 3 shot groups into a clover leaf, then shoot the next 4-3 shot groups that are 4” at 100 yards. The opposite could be true too. But 3 shot groups give a small insight to how your gun shoots.

Picture you are trying to figure out your families average mile per gallon in your shared car. Your wife drives it 1 day a week and gets 40 mpg because she drives like a grandma. You drive like a bandit, all gas and brakes. You get 12mpg for the other 6 days a week. You can’t go around and say your families average mpg is 40. Rifles are less controllable, but you get the idea.

 

[Wrench]

Why mess around at 100yds? Wring it out where it'll work. Train at 600 shoot 400 and never look back.

 

[RWT]

That’s kind of my thoughts at this point. Will give the 10 shot group a go and see how it turns out. Maybe my 3rd round that’s furthest out is a flyer that I pulled, or just the extreme edge. We will see! Now the question is how the hell do yall keep your barrel cool enough for a 10 shot group in July in Texas? Or is the correct answer “don’t live in a 110 degree oven”?

I am in a similar situation. By shot 7 the mirage off the barrel affects the sight picture. Also if you are not shooting before 8:00 then the mirage off the ground is an issue.

I shoot in the shade, during a mag change I run a chamber cooler ( you can make one for $30 off amazon), I also have a battery powered fan blowing towards me and the barrel. This allows me to get to 12-15 shots before the mirage impacts sight picture.