What Does A Big $ Scope Do For You?

[mcseal2]

I have a few Leupolds with the Varmint Hunter reticle and have always liked it when the reticle fits your load pretty well. You can look up the VH (varmint hunter) and B&C (boone & crockett) reticles wind and drop markings online. Most of my shooting is at coyotes, big game, or practicing for coyotes or big game. I really like the fine VH reticle for bench shooting working up loads or establishing and checking my zero. It works pretty darn well out to 500yds too when the load fits the reticle. What I have found though, is that I don't like having to zero a fast moving coyote round like a 40gr 204, 55gr 22-250, 70gr 243, etc. at 200yds. I seldom have time to range and set up a shot for predators when calling although I do range various landmarks before starting calling. Most of those guns can get me to 300yds or a bit more without being more than 2.75" high or low with a zero of around 250yds. I find I shoot better not using the VH reticle for the most part and just holding on the heart if I think they are in that 150-200yd range and between the middle of the chest and top of the back from 275 to 350. It seems more forgiving to me. My AR I use a 3.5-10x with the B&C reticle since it starts dropping significantly already at 250yds, and I need the extra help estimating my holds. I haven't been using it long but it seems to be working well so far. I also like the VH reticle scopes on some of my big game rifles where the drops fit the crosshair well. I've taken several animals using them between 300 and 500yds with good results under good conditions.

I have 3 Leupold VX-6 scopes with the TMOA reticle. The glass in them is amazing and I love that reticle. I also love the 3-18x for a great field of view close and plenty of zoom out there further. All those scopes have the CDS. The low light performance of those scopes is on par with the Swaro Z5 3.5-18x scope, they are as good of glass as anything I've looked through. I also like the covered elevation and windage turrets.

The downside I've found to the VX-6 line is the CDS. They have been tough scopes that I've had on guns that I carry in the ranch trucks and they have held their zero well until I start dialing with them. The ones on my 264 and 25-06 I started dialing with I have had tracking issues with. The one on the 25-06 might not move without tapping on the turrets with an empty brass case several times. The one on the 264 does not properly return to zero after dialing and I'm sending it in for repair. I have read on threads here that the Leupolds aren't built from the ground up for dialing like a Nightforce or similar scope. I know I'm going to quit dialing the one on the 25-06 and put it on a gun I won't worry about dialing. It holds a zero fine when I zero it and don't dial. The one on the 264 will be sold after I get it back from Leupold. I will likely try a Nightforce 4-14 SHV scope in it's place. The adjustments on my Vortex, Swaro, and Huskemaw scopes I dial click solidly into place when dialed. The ones on the VX-6 seem spongy and not definite when dialed. I don't know if this is part of the issue or not. Leupold is a great company and makes great stuff for the most part, but I personally would rather own a Leupold with a reticle designed for longer distance than trust their CDS.

Hre is the short of it for me:
If you are just shooting big game inside 300yds get a good 3-9x with a duplex reticle and spend money on ammo learning to be good with it
If you are shooting smaller critters stationary inside 500yds the VH reticle works well
If you are shooting big game stationary inside 500yds the VH or B&C reticles work well
-These work far better if you know your actual muzzle velocity and ballistic coefficient and run them on a ballistics program. Buy the reticle that best fits your load and confirm/adjust your zero with actual field shooting paper at 300-500yds. I like to make my adjustments off my 400yd target so it's spot on and then check if adjustments in hold are needed at other distances.

I guess all my rambling brings me to what I want in a scope currently. I want glass that's excellent in low light in a package that isn't to bulky or heavy. I want a locking or covered elevation turret that I can put a custom dial on built to my load. I want a reticle marked with 1 MOA marks for wind holds that isn't to cluttered otherwise. The advantage of turrets over a reticle like the VH for me is that after I zero it for 100 or 200yds I can set my dial to 240 or 250yds with something like my 264WM and 140gr bullet and then lock it or put the screw cap back on and forget about it while hunting for any shot inside 300yds. When I do get a long shot I can take time to unlock or unscrew the cap and dial my range. If it's windy I have my wind meter and MOA drift card I'll use to make those adjustments with the MOA reticle in the scope. Also if a scope won't track reliably I have no use for a system that allows for dialing.

When time allows I do like to dial for precision at smaller targets at mid range, or any target at longer range. I don't find that I do it all that often, but if time allows I find I shoot better that way. Part of it might be the added confidence I get from knowing I can hold dead on for elevation.

If a called coyote hangs up at say 341yds facing me and starts barking at me I don't have to try to guess where between my 300 and 400yd crosshair to hold. I dial to 340yds and hold dead on. If a coyote comes screaming close I can ignore the turret all together. Same with big game. I can hunt timber or broken country and take a quick shot at close to mid range, but if the wind is howling or the animal is feeding at 414yds and I have plenty of time the added precision of the turret and MOA windage marks used with my rangefinder and wind meter make me as confident as I can be when I take my shot.

I also really like that system for practicing at longer ranges. I love shooting with that system out past 600yds and getting good hits. I don't often use that capability when hunting, but knowing I can nail targets at 600 gives me more confidence at lesser rangers when hunting. I have no plans to shoot game out as far as I practice, but sure enjoy the practicing. When learning to shoot a bow the guy at the archery shop had me practicing at 80yds shooting a target on a round bale because issues with my shooting form show up much more at 80yds than at 30yds. The rifle shooting seems to be the same way.

 

[mcseal2]

One last tip for those unfamiliar with the reticles like the B&C or VH.

Remember your drop increases as your range increases. I've shot with people who try to hold dead center between for example their 400 and 500yd crosshair for a 450yd shot and hit high. The bullet is slowing down more and dropping faster from 450 to 500 than it is from 400 to 450. What I do is put the next shorter distance crosshair at the top of the target, so for that example on a deer I'd put the 400yd crosshair on the top of the deer's back. I then see where that puts the 500yd crosshair. I'll adjust my hold to where I think it needs to be then from that reference point. Just splitting the difference isn't always the right choice for mid ranges, especially as distance increases. Knowing the actual drop numbers for your load in 25yd increments and actual drop values for your crosshairs is a good idea. Having a chart that shows both is a good one too. Keeping things simpler than all that is part of why I like the MOA reticle for wind and turret better, dial hold wind and shoot. Instead of estimate with the reticle, estimate wind and shoot. Anyway just something to think about. Sorry for de-railing the thread a bit.

 

[Joelweb]

The limitations of a mid-grade spotting scope are most visible when you are pushing the scope to its outer limits. For example, if you spot a buck or bull a mile or more out and zoom in to get a better look, you'll see a lot less clarity with a cheaper scope. It can be frustrating. I think a lot of the 85mm spotters are basically unusable above 45x magnification. If you spring for a Swaro or other alpha grade scope, you'll have that edge to edge clarity and they hold that clarity when cranked all of the way down.

 

[CentennialState]

One last tip for those unfamiliar with the reticles like the B&C or VH.

Remember your drop increases as your range increases. I've shot with people who try to hold dead center between for example their 400 and 500yd crosshair for a 450yd shot and hit high. The bullet is slowing down more and dropping faster from 450 to 500 than it is from 400 to 450. What I do is put the next shorter distance crosshair at the top of the target, so for that example on a deer I'd put the 400yd crosshair on the top of the deer's back. I then see where that puts the 500yd crosshair. I'll adjust my hold to where I think it needs to be then from that reference point. Just splitting the difference isn't always the right choice for mid ranges, especially as distance increases. Knowing the actual drop numbers for your load in 25yd increments and actual drop values for your crosshairs is a good idea. Having a chart that shows both is a good one too. Keeping things simpler than all that is part of why I like the MOA reticle for wind and turret better, dial hold wind and shoot. Instead of estimate with the reticle, estimate wind and shoot. Anyway just something to think about. Sorry for de-railing the thread a bit.

Very helpful. Thanks!

 

[doc holiday13]

Quality of glass is my number 1 criteria. when you get into higher magnification end of whatever scope you'll start seeing distortions, dark spots, haziness, etc. Everyone talked up how great the Vortex Razor line was. I picked one up after previously owning a USO and Nightforce... I was not impressed. I feel the glass quality was the same as their next lower tier optics which are the Vipers.

My first USO was a 1.8-10x44w/EREK... That is an amazing piece at 10x i felt like the scope simply moved everything closer to me. Zero distortion or blurring

 

[Darryle]

Regardless of cost, it should be reliable, otherwise it's useless.

Price doesn't necessarily equate to reliability either.

 

[CentennialState]

Yep, agree with the consensus here. These cartridges you mention match up well with Leupolds B&C reticle so any of the Lupies would be a set it and forget it scope.

Are there some calibers that dont work well with that reticle?

 

[CentennialState]

The B and C would be fine. They also have a varmint reticle, forget the exact name of it but it has the Christmas tree in it for wind calls and lead. It's a little busy for a woods gun but really slick for open country. Depending on your zero, you can work out a system to use it for about any cartridge if you know the distance you're shooting. No dialing required.

Most folks that dial use generic MOA or Mils, I don't think the CDS is all that versatile and adds a degree of mechanical complexity that may not be necessary for a hunting gun. Then again, variety is the spice of life

I don't understand the CDS completely but can you explain how that's supposed to work with a Boone and Crockett reticle?

 

[nksmfamjp]

There are several break through that come as you dial up in price with optics.

1) holding zero - Are you the guy who has several boxes of the same ammo, but find your self dialing a click or 2 when you check zero? After a hike, flight, car ride or when your rifle gets bumped? If so, it is not holding zero. This can be hard to not think of as zeroing your rifle, but same rifle, same ammo, 100 yards, 100 days later ought to be same zero.

2) dialing - when you need to move 3 moa on paper, can you dial 3 moa, shoot and be at that spot? 3-4 times in a row? Without a scope bump or stray shot?

3) parallax and focus - Can you truly focus into a clear parallax free image at all ranges. Does your fast focus eyepiece not affect zero?

4) resolution and glass - how well can you see your target. This is where chromatic aberration can really hurt. If everything has a purple blurr around it, true zero is hard to see. Also, color rendition and contrast. This is how your mind resolves deer face
s from green and brown grasses. Resolution of challenging images is hard work. To make a nice looking clear edge to edge 10x image is exponentially easier than a 20x image.

5) features - external turrets, locking turrets, scale reticles, easy zeroing, levers, weight, size

So, we have all bought $100 scopes. I found all of mine lacking in 1-3 when trying to establish true 1/4 mi capability.
At 1/4 mi or 450 yds, I need to dial/hold elevation and wind. Wind varies, so I find holding wind a bit easier. I do find I can get everything I need at about $700 with something like the Vortex Viper PST Gen 2 3-15x. I also find just clearly seeing the game to be a bit of a challenge below this optic. That said, purely as an aiming devices, the glass is a bit overkill and I’m sure there a $300 scopes that can do this. I tried a $200 Bushnell Nitro FFP Deployee Mil for a bit that could do this.

at 1/2mi…..which many folks bought or bulit sub moa rifles to shoot this far. If you did, scope it. 1/2mi or really 1000 yards takes a bit more scope in terms of resolution at higher magnification…..really 20x, IMO. I don’t believe I’ve seen a 20x image under $600 that was really usable as a better aiming image that the same optic at 10x. My step up to the Tract Toric 4-20x was really an eye opener literally for what a 20x image should be.

Now if your question is do I need a Nightforce, yes we all do!….but more you need to know what would be better about an NX-8 or better and have you compromised the right things to get to your purchase. The ATACR and NX-8 are really both optics out of my price range that when I run them, I see why they are better.

Do you need a TT or ZCO? I don’t know. Some are being sold, but are those folks hitting better than everyone else? Why do GAP PRS shooters use Bushnell.

Are there scopes or brands selling high end stuff that cannot do 1&2 well enough? Look a @Formidilosus reviews.

Last, get a Leupold B&C reticle in front of you. Then think 423 yds, 7mph 8oclock wind. and mark your aim point. Then pull out the drop charts and reticle image with the measurements and figure out the correct POI. Were you on the deers vitals? Did you remember to dial to the right magnification first? This is why a good ffp Xmas tree reticle in mils can really help.

 

[hiker270]

If you have the extra cash high quality scopes are certainly nice. I usually spend a lot more time behind my binoculars than looking through my scope. Looking back 40-50 years its a wonder us old timers could kill anything with a 4x Weaver.