What clothes should we buy before PFAS regulations?

[Hnthrdr]

A lot of the how’s and whys aren’t fully known yet. There’s an ongoing study with the local university looking into it further. It’s happening though, cancer rates in firefighters are not good. Are firefighters a “canary in the coal mine” warning for the rest of us?

Firefighters face cancer risks from harmful chemicals. Here's how they're working to limit exposure

Firefighters have a higher cancer risk than most groups in part because of PFAS exposure. Researchers are looking for ways to lower the risks.

www.azcentral.com

As a firefighter like 75% of rokslide… some of the risks… I believe are the incredible amount of exposure to toxins during fires, yes the protective gear has pfas in them… but often times we are in that gear in a super heated environment which is also teaming with toxic vapor and chemicals, not to mention the endless amount of dumpster, trashcan fires, car fires. I’ve been in this career for 7 years, pretty recently has there been discussion and funding for having 2 sets of bunker gear, (one to get cleaned post fires) cleaning thoroughly after fires ect… prior to this guys had one set that would see dozens of fires or more before they were cleaned. Most fires burn hotter and are largely full of Burning plastics we should look into this stuff but there are lots of factors effecting cancer rates in firemen

 

[180ls1]

As a firefighter like 75% of rokslide… some of the risks… I believe are the incredible amount of exposure to toxins during fires, yes the protective gear has pfas in them… but often times we are in that gear in a super heated environment which is also teaming with toxic vapor and chemicals, not to mention the endless amount of dumpster, trashcan fires, car fires. I’ve been in this career for 7 years, pretty recently has there been discussion and funding for having 2 sets of bunker gear, (one to get cleaned post fires) cleaning thoroughly after fires ect… prior to this guys had one set that would see dozens of fires or more before they were cleaned. Most fires burn hotter and are largely full of Burning plastics we should look into this stuff but there are lots of factors effecting cancer rates in firemen

Thank you for what you do.


My wife and I audited what we expose ourselves to recently. Its alarming how hard I can work to provide organic game only to have it exposed to *poisoned* - pans (teflon), plates, bowls, plastic freezer bags, seasoning. etc....

 

[Hnthrdr]

Thank you for what you do.


My wife and I audited what we expose ourselves to recently. Its alarming how hard I can work to provide organic game only to have it exposed to *poisoned* - pans (teflon), plates, bowls, plastic freezer bags, seasoning. etc....

Yeah it’s unsettling to really deep dive into it. Plastic cutting boards, cups, dishware, cook ware silverware… lots of stuff that is actively poisonous, and the old ignorance is bliss holds true but once you know about it it’s hard to ignore

 

[whiskybiker]

Not crazy, just informed, Cali made the announcement in 2022. It’s 2025. This isn’t a new development as people think. Any textile with DWR, stain resistant, no-iron etc had a PFAS.

Sky isn’t falling, just do your own research and you can see which PFAS and where there is actually liability

You sound like someone who would've complained when they banned DDT. Even you acknowledge these chemicals either a: don't break down or b:take more then our life time to do so. And, for some reason that sounds good? And coated fabric sheds it's coating, so those chemicals end up wherever they fall. And it's not all from the fabric-the production of it puts plenty into our air/water as well.

I'm not going to keep arguing this with you. It doesn't take a blind man to see we got a lot of sickness going on-and it's not all from the highly processed foods. You can keep you head in the sand if it makes you happy. But, I do want a healthy life and home for our future generations.

 

[pugwylde]

Goretex causes cancer? Please connect those dots for me.

Goretex doesn't cause cancer, Goretex production is believed to cause cancer, due to PFAS release into the environment.

 

[cuerro viejo]

You sound like someone who would've complained when they banned DDT. Even you acknowledge these chemicals either a: don't break down or b:take more then our life time to do so. And, for some reason that sounds good? And coated fabric sheds it's coating, so those chemicals end up wherever they fall. And it's not all from the fabric-the production of it puts plenty into our air/water as well.

I'm not going to keep arguing this with you. It doesn't take a blind man to see we got a lot of sickness going on-and it's not all from the highly processed foods. You can keep you head in the sand if it makes you happy. But, I do want a healthy life and home for our future generations.

lol, ya the real sound science that cost millions of lives after that fake sound science got it banned….. facts matter.

But that’s a whole other argument DDT still has applicable usage today or it wouldn’t of been used to help with the Zika control.

You sound more like a guy that listens to CNN then hides in shadows, waiting for end of the world why the rest of us live.

Again produce the documentation and studies showing wearing WPB laminates and DWR caused cancer… you should have a min of 46 years worth of data. I’ll help 1978 life span was 73, today 79

Mean time let’s not go out side with out our mineral sunscreen if we go out during daylight hours…..

 

[whiskybiker]

Weird, I'm not the one who's scared to be outside with out gortex or its off brand counterparts......

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Has anyone ever died from wearing Goretex?

 

[Macintosh]

Guys, the regulations are based in toxins from the MANUFACTURE of pfas material, not from wearing it. Obviously its not good stuff, but no ine is claiming that wearing a rain jacket (absent standing +\-in a fire while wearing it) is going to cause cancer, the regs are to prevent majorly toxic areas around manufacturing sites that infiltrate into ground water, etc.

Honestly, it’s probably too late to start hoarding stuff. WL Gore, I believe has been transitioning to PFC-free DWR’s for going on five or six years now, and transitioning away from many of their membrane fabrics, which contain the PFAS material, for several years. Event and others have been doing the same. Europe is five or more years ahead of the US on this regulation, and California is even a couple years behind Europe. Between Europe and California they drive a considerable portion of the world‘s outdoor fabric economy, enough that manufacturers cannot ignore those areas and have been making changes already for several years. If you really wanna hoard something, you might need to start looking for used gear.

I worked for a major outdoor apparel manufacturer for 20+ years up until 2021, and they had already been transitioning to the PFC-free DWR for several years before I left due to the same regs. I have waterproof/breatheable fabrics from before and after those changes (same fabric, same manufacturer, just the different dwr—, and there is a significant noticeable difference in how waterproof they are, and this is from jackets that are a couple years old. I still keep in touch with some of the same people I worked with before, a few of whom work for some of the major fabric producers, off the record they all will tell you that the new fabrics are nowhere near as good as the old ones. It’s possible that they will eventually catch up, but that’s not a certainty, and that is years in the future. Unfortunately, there is no current replacement for the high-quality waterproof, breathable fabrics of a few years ago.stuff like
legit gore Pro Shell was heads and tails more waterproof than even the best competitors fabric a few years ago, and there’s nothing even remotely close to it now. Of course those jackets were five and $600 at retail, so many manufacturers were using proprietary fabrics that did not perform as well already, I don’t have a direct comparison for those, but if you were using a top-of-the-line shell made of WL Gore fabric, it simply isn’t going to be as good in the future, at least not for a good number of years.

 

[gtriple]

Please take the politics and arguments elsewhere. I just want gear that keeps me dry.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Please take the politics and arguments elsewhere. I just want gear that keeps me dry.

The older kuiu rain gear seems bombproof, according to the last post though not sure if it is the same stuff that was made 5-6 years ago though

 

[Macintosh]

I believe kuiu uses Toray fabrics, they are probably the second largest producer of wpb fabric in the world. A large % of the non Gore-branded wp breatheable fabric out there is made by them, and they allow companies to put their own “brand” on the fabric, so it goes by a lot of names. They also make a lot of different fabric membranes, which are bonded to different face fabrics, which then get a dwr. The face fabric used has a lot to do with how it will shed water, but the dwr is what prevents the weave of the face-fabric from getting saturated with water, and is a big part of what makes them waterproof in actual use, AND its a huge part of what allows the fabric to breathe. All of the good DWR‘s used to be made from fluorinated chemicals, which will be banned or already are. I believe Europe has already banned their use, which is why the DWR treatments were some of the first changes made. I would be really surprised if kuiu or anyone else is able to still buy fluorinated DWR treatments on any fabrics. Torre is actually the one major fabric manufacturer, where I don’t know anyone who has worked there and is familiar with their fabric, so I don’t know how the membrane itself will or won’t be affected by this regulation.

 

[BBob]

the regs are to prevent majorly toxic areas around manufacturing sites that infiltrate into ground water, etc.

Not just manufacturing. Fluorocarbons were used highly in ski waxes. Ski wax manufacturers have all but eliminated it out of the waxes. We were polluting the waterways for decades through snow melt and the fluorocarbons we left on the ski slopes.

 

[Macintosh]

Not just manufacturing. Fluorocarbons were used highly in ski waxes. Ski wax manufacturers have all but eliminated it out of the waxes. We were polluting the waterways for decades through snow melt and the fluorocarbons we left on the ski slopes.

Yep. In addition to manufacturing the waxes, its also because FIS, the governing body of world cup ski racing, banned the use of flourinated waxes. Those were all race-only waxes due to the much higher cost so 99.9% of skiers would never come in contact, but the race techs were practically bathing in it, melting it with hot irons, etc. Many of the racers wouldn’t wax their own skis because the fumes were shown to directly affect their performance. As a forever chemical anything that comes off would go into the environment, so it would accumulate, but I don’t think the actual reason for ceasing manufacturer of it had to do with environmental runoff from ski areas, it was still all about applying the wax and manufacturing it because thats where 99% of it was entering the environment from. Same issue, but the much higher exposure from applying it isnt present in apparel.

“LF” is “low floro”, the same manufacturer also made “HF” hot wax, plus liquid floro wax, etc. do a Google search for wax technician World Cup, or something like that, and you’ll see folks waxing skis wearing full on industrial respirators. For a reason! Apparently my out of date wax kit is a superfund site.

 

[Southernfried]

Interesting discussion since these new laws have not been applied to TN yet, but, when we were on vacation back in June in Steamboat Springs, I read a local paper article there, that Colorado just passed a similar law, and nothing with these chemicals will even be allowed in the state. No backpacks, boots, rain gear, outdoor gear etc. In the article when questioned about it the "lawmakers" stated and I paraphrase, "ya have 5 years, get new gear". In the article I don't remember anything about cancer, and I was reading while my wife was driving, so I may have missed it, but the issue they claim, none of these items will naturally break down, say in a landfill....Then I went to the local Walmart and didn't realize they don't even have plastic bags you have to bring your own to shop, until we were in checkout, heck I saw women poking stuff in their bags while we were shopping and I thought they were stealing it, lol didn't know they had brought their own bags for shopping lol. Will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

But how much exposure are you really getting from a boot or jacket? Prob more toxic and worrisome things in the stuff people are eating/drinking in the US.

Lead is bad for you but i’ve been using lead sinkers to fish my entire life, my old man before me. Neither of us have lead poisoning. That sorta thing.

I don’t think they are worried about individual exposure through materials you’re wearing, it’s the large scale manufacturing and it building up in the water/environment. Who knows but I think it’s reasonable to assume adding synthetic compounds to our water that never break down and build up over time isn’t a good thing. Maybe it doesn’t affect us or our kids, but it’ll eventually somewhere down the line.

Absolutely more worrisome things in our food/water, cancer rates along with just about every other negative health thing are rising. I think it’s a snowball effect, not just one thing. Bad food, environmental toxins (pesticides/chemicals/PFAS), plastics and numerous other things. Something our future generations are going to have to figure out.

 

[Predator_SD]

I don’t think they are worried about individual exposure through materials you’re wearing, it’s the large scale manufacturing and it building up in the water/environment. Who knows but I think it’s reasonable to assume adding synthetic compounds to our water that never break down and build up over time isn’t a good thing. Maybe it doesn’t affect us or our kids, but it’ll eventually somewhere down the line.

Absolutely more worrisome things in our food/water, cancer rates along with just about every other negative health thing are rising. I think it’s a snowball effect, not just one thing. Bad food, environmental toxins (pesticides/chemicals/PFAS), plastics and numerous other things. Something our future generations are going to have to figure out.

Oh trust me i understand. But if that’s the case why does Apple get a pass because their PFAs are “essential to manufacture” Iphones? Are PFAs bad enough we need to eliminate them all from everything or not? Which is it? There is no doubt the manufacturing of Iphones or discarding of medications down the toilet or people drains is contributing FAR more to this problem than making and using Gore Tex hunting and hiking boots. But once again Big Tech and Big Pharm get a pass and all of us do not. Why ya think that might be? I have a few educated guesses i tell ya what.

Cancer rates ARE rising. Did you know Gasoline contains Benzene, a known carcinogen, and you’re exposed each and every time you pump gas? There has been research showing EM radiation from those very Apple Iphones we use also can cause cancer. Of course those studies are now poorly funded and squashed by the tech giants. The largest companies amongst us seem to always get a pass when they are likely the worst offenders.

But if you’re a small hunting company be gone with you. No using Gor Tex or DWR for you youre killing the environment! I highly doubt the manufacture of gor tex or dwr is the culprit here. But there is no doubt that that industry is the most poorly funded between them, big tech, and big pharma.

Banning gor tex in your boots won’t move the needle on this problem in the least. It’s no doubt a miniscule drop in the bucket compared to the bigger offenders but we will just let that slide cause you know, everyone needs their iphones and Tylenol.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Oh trust me i understand. But if that’s the case why does Apple get a pass because their PFAs are “essential to manufacture” Iphones? Are PFAs bad enough we need to eliminate them all from everything or not? Which is it? There is no doubt the manufacturing of Iphones or discarding of medications down the toilet or people drains is contributing FAR more to this problem than making and using Gore Tex hunting and hiking boots. But once again Big Tech and Big Pharm get a pass and all of us do not. Why ya think that might be? I have a few educated guesses i tell ya what.

Cancer rates ARE rising. Did you know Gasoline contains Benzene, a known carcinogen, and you’re exposed each and every time you pump gas? There has been research showing EM radiation from those very Apple Iphones we use also can cause cancer. Of course those studies are now poorly funded and squashed by the tech giants. The largest companies amongst us seem to always get a pass when they are likely the worst offenders.

But if you’re a small hunting company be gone with you. No using Gor Tex or DWR for you youre killing the environment! I highly doubt the manufacture of gor tex or dwr is the culprit here. But there is no doubt that that industry is the most poorly funded between them, big tech, and big pharma.

Banning gor tex in your boots won’t move the needle on this problem in the least. It’s no doubt a miniscule drop in the bucket compared to the bigger offenders but we will just let that slide cause you know, everyone needs their iphones and Tylenol.

I agree, system is messed up

 

[pugwylde]

Oh trust me i understand. But if that’s the case why does Apple get a pass because their PFAs are “essential to manufacture” Iphones? Are PFAs bad enough we need to eliminate them all from everything or not? Which is it? There is no doubt the manufacturing of Iphones or discarding of medications down the toilet or people drains is contributing FAR more to this problem than making and using Gore Tex hunting and hiking boots. But once again Big Tech and Big Pharm get a pass and all of us do not. Why ya think that might be? I have a few educated guesses i tell ya what.

Cancer rates ARE rising. Did you know Gasoline contains Benzene, a known carcinogen, and you’re exposed each and every time you pump gas? There has been research showing EM radiation from those very Apple Iphones we use also can cause cancer. Of course those studies are now poorly funded and squashed by the tech giants. The largest companies amongst us seem to always get a pass when they are likely the worst offenders.

But if you’re a small hunting company be gone with you. No using Gor Tex or DWR for you youre killing the environment! I highly doubt the manufacture of gor tex or dwr is the culprit here. But there is no doubt that that industry is the most poorly funded between them, big tech, and big pharma.

Banning gor tex in your boots won’t move the needle on this problem in the least. It’s no doubt a miniscule drop in the bucket compared to the bigger offenders but we will just let that slide cause you know, everyone needs their iphones and Tylenol.

The tech company pass for PFAS is because the tech is considered a national security issue, while your hunting gear is not. Lobbying probably played a big part in getting that designation, but also the fact that very few people could navigate their day without a phone or computer, let alone a government.

 

[Predator_SD]

The tech company pass for PFAS is because the tech is considered a national security issue, while your hunting gear is not. Lobbying probably played a big part in getting that designation, but also the fact that very few people could navigate their day without a phone or computer, let alone a government.

And that’s the problem because they are the ones, in addition to pharmaceutical companies, responsible for the bulk of PFAs being released into the environment NOT my hunting gear.

So banning the hunting gear is nothing but more virtue signaling by politicians who want the mindless masses to believe they are helping you when the reality is they don’t care about you. They only care about what that lobbyists is sliding him off the books.

And that is why i never jump off the cliff when the masses say i should as in, “but don’t you care about PFAs in the rivers”. Sure i do but unless we all are willing to look at the real source of the problem and address it there instead of constantly attacking the low hanging fruit (hunters cause we are a minority) i’ll never support their virtue signaling that does nothing but harm smaller companies and make the PFA problem worse down the road. All while those exempted get a free pass and become even wealthier on the false premise it’s a “national security” issue. Your cell phone is most definitely NOT a national security issue. Maybe Trumps is but yours and mine are not. And they can make cell phones without PFAs they just wouldn’t have as slick of screens. But hey, they got gore tex outta boots that should do it