What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[The Guide]

I love using small calibers, gives a guy time to brush up on his tracking skills

What calibers require not tracking?

Jay

 

[KenLee]

You may need to work on your aim then, amigo.

We dont need no f'n practice, Randy!!!

 

[Billogna]

What calibers require not tracking?

Jay

ANY OD THE LORD'F CALIBURS!!! 2HUNNERT23 MITE ECSPAND BUT 30 OUGHT 6 DONT SHRINK!!! I SHUT A MOOOSE ONCET AND HE HADDALAYERDOWN!! GOBBLESS!!

~sent from Norelco Electric Shaver

 

[The Guide]

ANY OD THE LORD'F CALIBURS!!! 2HUNNERT23 MITE ECSPAND BUT 30 OUGHT 6 DONT SHRINK!!! I SHUT A MOOOSE ONCET AND HE HADDALAYERDOWN!! GOBBLESS!!

~sent from Norelco Electric Shaver

GOBBLESS YOU IN YER TIME OF NEED.

~sent from Celina 52 Truck Stop Stall #4 toilet paper dispenser - show this post for 25% off your 1.5 gallon Big Yeller Piss Jug!

 

[The Guide]

It’s not obvious? I’m not going to caliber burn!

 

[atmat]

You might need to work on getting a joke. And I’m not your amigo.

I got the joke, amigo friend. It just wasn’t particularly funny.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

I live in Alaska and don’t think I could ever be comfortable using a small caliber. I like the added insurance of exit wounds like this.
I don’t need to be tracking little droplets of blood, I like to follow entrails.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I live in Alaska and don’t think I could ever be comfortable using a small caliber. I like the added insurance of exit wounds like this.
I don’t need to be tracking little droplets of blood, I like to follow entrails.


View attachment 744393

112 matchburner? Nice “hole.”

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

@KenLee @gabenzeke To be fair, all of the photo threads and the folks perceived as gurus in this "cult of the small gun" have repeatedly said a larger cartridge with a like-bullet (ie small eldm vs big eldm, small tmk vs big TMK, etc) will create a bigger hole in the critter, and with photos to illustrate it. All of those photos are posted to show "excessive damage", and the move to the smaller cartridge was to accomplish "enough" damage for a fast, efficient, reliable kill. If a bigger hole qualifies as an "insurance factor", then as far as I can tell it's 100% certain the larger cartridge, given the same bullet, does typically provide some amount of insurance strictly from a terminal perspective. So, from what I can gather the hard evidence DOES clearly support there being at least some "insurance factor" with a big gun. The key is whether that is 1) partially or entirely offest by greater difficulty to put the shot in the right place with a harder-recoiling gun, 2) enough of a bigger hole to provide a meaningful degree of "insurance", 3) is the big gun actually using a bullet that makes a bigger hole, or is it using a bullet that produces smaller diameter wound channel, in which case the smaller cartridge may actually provide more insurance, and 4) if using a larger cartridge with a highly damaging bullet introduces other negatives, such as not having an acceptable amount of critter left after making such a big hole in it.

This is all ballistic masturbation to a large degree, but did want to point out that the evidence I have seen posted on this site, in all cases, does support bigger cartridges making bigger holes--but only if the same bullets are used. The typical statement of a small gun making "as big a hole or bigger" is focused on larger calibers only when they are throwing bullets designed to produce a narrower wound.

Probably the best overall summary I've read to date. Well said @Macintosh !

 

[JGRaider]

I killed a whitetail with a tire tool once in college......it was a very efficient killer, so much so that there wasn't even an entrance or exit hole.

 

[atmat]

I killed a whitetail with a tire tool once in college......it was a very efficient killer, so much so that there wasn't even an entrance or exit hole.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I killed a whitetail with a tire tool once in college......it was a very efficient killer, so much so that there wasn't even an entrance or exit hole.

If you've ever wondered why it is hard to take any post you make seriously, read this outloud. What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

 

[Ozarkansas]

This isn’t super relevant other than it’s further proof that energy isn't a good metric and wound characteristics matter, but y’all should hang out with guys who cast their own bullets to hunt with sometime. Those dudes are getting reliable kills with obsolete rounds that don’t even generate .223 energy levels, using wide meplat bullets that bore a hole through the animal like a wadcutter.
These guys have a completely different mindset about terminal ballistics than most, they expect the deer to run a little ways but know it won’t go far and that they can blood trail it easily, so in that regard it’s a lot like bow hunting. They’re the first group of people I ever saw effectively dismantle the “1,000 ft lbs minimum for big game” argument.

 

[PistolPete]

This isn’t super relevant other than it’s further proof that energy isn't a good metric and wound characteristics matter, but y’all should hang out with guys who cast their own bullets to hunt with sometime. Those dudes are getting reliable kills with obsolete rounds that don’t even generate .223 energy levels, using wide meplat bullets that bore a hole through the animal like a wadcutter.
These dudes have a completely different mindset about terminal ballistics than most, they expect the deer to run a little ways but know it won’t go far and that they can blood trail it easily, so in that regard it’s a lot like bow hunting. They’re the first group of people I ever saw effectively dismantle the “1,000 ft lbs minimum for big game” argument.

You're exactly right; however, I've shot deer with this approach (45 Colt cast SWC's at 800 fps), and while the bullets always exit, and the deer do die with double lung hits, blood trails are long and very sparse to nonexistent. In thick cover, it makes for tough recoveries.

 

[TaperPin]

My Friday morning chuckle has been reading some 223 silliness of how good of a killer it is, then a story from the field of the same person shooting an elk more than once. Now, I don’t mean to down play anyone’s math skills, but isn’t shooting an animal twice imparting twice the bullet damage?

Even with a smallish 7 mag I squeeze the trigger with enough confidence in placement and killing effectiveness that I don’t usually feel there’s a benefit to putting a second hole in what will be a most certainly dead elk or deer.

I’m just overly simple I guess. Shoot ‘em once kill ‘em once.

 

[Sled]

I live in Alaska and don’t think I could ever be comfortable using a small caliber. I like the added insurance of exit wounds like this.
I don’t need to be tracking little droplets of blood, I like to follow entrails.


View attachment 744393

Are you bragging about a gut shot? Bullets are expensive but practice is cheap insurance.

Edit: I know you can shoot. Just busting your balls a little.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Even with a smallish 7 mag I squeeze the trigger with enough confidence in placement and killing effectiveness that I don’t usually feel there’s a benefit to putting a second hole in what will be a most certainly dead elk or deer.

I’m just overly simple I guess. Shoot ‘em once kill ‘em once.

Please do yourself and elk a favor, and don't hunt them.

 

[TaperPin]

Please do yourself and elk a favor, and don't hunt them.

You’re probably right - one well placed shot is a goofy way to hunt.

 

[Ozarkansas]

You're exactly right; however, I've shot deer with this approach (45 Colt cast SWC's at 800 fps), and while the bullets always exit, and the deer do die with double lung hits, blood trails are long and very sparse to nonexistent. In thick cover, it makes for tough recoveries.

I haven’t had an issue yet with blood trails but since I’m using a 45/70 I’m definitely on the high end of the wound diameter/bullet speed spectrum. My experience has been similar to or slightly better than the blood trails I see from 2-blade broadheads. Not great, but good enough. It’s definitely not how you’d want to hunt if you’re colorblind

 

[JGRaider]

If you've ever wondered why it is hard to take any post you make seriously, read this outloud. What exactly are you trying to accomplish?

You, atmat, and a couple others with the perpetual redasss need to lighten up and learn how to take a light hearted, tongue in cheek post not so seriously.