What bag/pad/tent would you choose?

[huntcurs]

I bought some cheaper backpacking stuff on sale in the spring to go on a hopeful elk hunt in 2015. I didn't want to dump a bunch of money into something I may get to use once a year. However, I ended up getting a job in Phoenix, and now those backpack hunts are a little more of a reality!

I upgraded my pack, and now I'm looking to upgrade my sleep system. I would rather get hunting than wait to spend top dollar, but I don't want to buy junk either. I would love to get some advice!

1) I will be making some quick 2-3 day trips in January for the mule deer rut within a few hours drive of Phoenix, but also hope to get into the early hunting seasons in August-September in the high country here in AZ and CO (until I can draw an AZ elk tag ). What temp rating would you go with to cover those scenarios? Would you go with a bag or quilt?

2) I have a Therm-a-Rest RidgeRest pad. It's bulky, but so light weight that I'd be willing to deal with it. Should I seriously consider upgrading to an inflatable, or can I stick with the RidgeRest?

3) I was given an REI Bug Hut 2 that weighs about 2 lbs. I think it will be great for the desert hunts, and am thinking about adding a tarp to go over it when I hunt the high country. Would you scrap it and start over, or do you think that would be a good setup?

 

[_Nick_]

I hunt the desert in So-Cal. It's a relatively tough environment for a sleep system because it can be incredibly windy (read sand storm), very hot, very cold, and a smattering of thunderstorms thrown in.

1) For high country, most people seem to be going with a 10-20* quilt. If I were hunting the Sierra, I'd probably run with my 20* quilt.

That said, for much of the desert country, I run a 50* quilt for the early seasons and then my 20* quilt late (quilts are nice because they can be easily vented if too hot). Enlightened Equipment and Hammock Gear (burrow) make good quilts. I've got the Hammock Gear. I really prefer a quilt.

2) I'd run the RidgeRest for now until you can easily afford a better quality upgrade. There seems to be a new XTherm coming out soon. I've got the old version and love it, but the new one is lighter and quieter. I'd wait for that, personally.

3) As to the bug hut... I wouldn't run it personally. There aren't too many bugs in the arid SW. What you will want for shelter, though, is some way to get out of the wind/thunderstorms. I run a Borah side zip bivy with a poncho tarp, but am also picking up a MLD Duomid to help deal with the windstorms a bit better. Flexibility of shelter is big in the desert. Most times I just bivy out, no cover. But when rain/wind threatens, I set up the tarp. The bug hut just won't really cut it, in my opinion.

So, my advice:

1) Hammock Gear quilt (cheaper than EE, still great quality). Or used. Probably 20*.

2) Wait for the new Xtherm, then buy that.

3) Get a bivy (TiGoat and Borah Gear make good ones). Consider a cuben bottom (spendy) or just go silnylon. Cuben is water proof so the bivy won't soak through from the bottom (though you can use a groundsheet with similar effect).

4) Get a tarp shelter. I'd go light here, as shelters typically last a long time. I've learned the hard way to 'buy once cry once', by crying way too many times over the past decade. Zpacks makes good tarps (look at the Hexamid shelter). MLD makes a good shelter in the Duomid/Solomid+. Or just get a cuben/silnylon flat tarp and learn to get good at pitching it a variety of ways. Also, consider a poncho tarp... can serve dual function when rain is less likely (it's there if you need it for a rain jacket and can cover you for most of the rain/wind you'd encounter when you weren't expecting a big monsoon front). I run the GoLite.

Other tips for camping in the desert (from my experience):

1) Polycryo ground sheet works well for me. Clear cactus thorns away from site first by shoe scraping the area.
2) Bring eye drops.
3) White/light colored clothing + white sun hat. I don the camo once I spot something.
4) Get some lightweight gaiters (dirty girl gaiters work well for me) that breathe but keep the sand out of shoes. (I just wear trail runners... boots are too hot for me).
5) Sunglasses (quality) are important. I wouldn't skimp on this.

A bit long winded of an answer. There are lots of big muleys in the AZ desert... so good luck!

 

[huntcurs]

I didn't even think about the dust storms. We just experienced our first one here, and you're right, wouldn't want to be in that bug hut!

Question about the tarp/bivy combo though. How are you rigging that to keep the dust out? I'm not experienced setting them up. All the ones I see rigged up in pics seem to have a small gap between them and the ground.

The weight on that setup is insanely light, but also a little spendy (I'm 6'6", so all the base prices go up for me for the long sizes... tall guy problems). I do love the idea of a quilt, as sleeping in a mummy bag is pretty miserable for me.

I also like the poncho tarp idea, especially after looking at the price of rain gear. Serving double duty would be nice.

Thanks for all the advice! It is hard to get anyone to open up about the location of some of those muleys, so at least I can get some gear help

 

[_Nick_]

Question about the tarp/bivy combo though. How are you rigging that to keep the dust out? I'm not experienced setting them up. All the ones I see rigged up in pics seem to have a small gap between them and the ground.

Well, in the worst dust storm, picking a somewhat sheltered location would be key. I'd try to nuzzle up downwind to a boulder and pitch the tarp with rocks at the base to eliminate as many gaps as possible. The only real way to stay dust free in that situation is to have a full on mountaineering style tent, though. But those are heavy. I hear that a little grit in the teeth is good for one's character?

The weight on that setup is insanely light, but also a little spendy (I'm 6'6", so all the base prices go up for me for the long sizes... tall guy problems). I do love the idea of a quilt, as sleeping in a mummy bag is pretty miserable for me.

Yes, get something dirt cheap that you can use in the meantime while you save up for it. It's spendy but there aren't really any better options in terms of the warmth to weight to cost ratio. I too am tall, and ditched my mummy for the same reason.

I also like the poncho tarp idea, especially after looking at the price of rain gear. Serving double duty would be nice.

It works great in much of the fall/winter in the desert. Just try to have real rain gear for the monsoons.

Thanks for all the advice! It is hard to get anyone to open up about the location of some of those muleys, so at least I can get some gear help

Happy to help with the gear... I'll be keeping the muley locations a little closer to the chest!

 

[5MilesBack]

2) Wait for the new Xtherm, then buy that.

What are they changing on the Xtherm?

 

[_Nick_]

They're making the fabric quieter (right now it's like sleeping on a bag of potato chips) and somehow losing a bit of weight, I believe. http://sectionhiker.com/outdoor-retailer-summer-2014-trade-show-gear-orgy/

 

[FreeRange]

4) Get a tarp shelter. I'd go light here, as shelters typically last a long time. I've learned the hard way to 'buy once cry once', by crying way too many times over the past decade. Zpacks makes good tarps (look at the Hexamid shelter). MLD makes a good shelter in the Duomid/Solomid+. Or just get a cuben/silnylon flat tarp and learn to get good at pitching it a variety of ways. Also, consider a poncho tarp... can serve dual function when rain is less likely (it's there if you need it for a rain jacket and can cover you for most of the rain/wind you'd encounter when you weren't expecting a big monsoon front). I run the GoLite.


In regards to the Poncho/tarp. I started off with the Golite + bivy, I liked it enough but I ended up with a Gatewood Cape from Six Moons Designs. Check it out, a little heavier but more of a fully enclosed shelter and I'm comfortable ditching the bivy sack while using it. I don't rely on it as rain gear if I'm expecting sustained weather or I'm going to be in a brushy area but if you're planning to just weather out an afternoon storm as it blows through these can work OK.

 

[_Nick_]

In regards to the Poncho/tarp. I started off with the Golite + bivy, I liked it enough but I ended up with a Gatewood Cape from Six Moons Designs. Check it out, a little heavier but more of a fully enclosed shelter and I'm comfortable ditching the bivy sack while using it. I don't rely on it as rain gear if I'm expecting sustained weather or I'm going to be in a brushy area but if you're planning to just weather out an afternoon storm as it blows through these can work OK.

Yes, I have heard good things about the Gatewood... it would certainly be in consideration if I ever decide to ditch the bivy/golite combo.

 

[huntcurs]

Have you guys used a single-hoop bivy, like the OR style? Seems to me that those would be much simpler than rigging a tarp for rain/dust storms. Bad weather rolls in, just zip up until it passes. I know you'd have to deal with the condensation, but is that as big an issue in the desert?

 

[Hunt'nFish]

A very good Tarp Shelter for the $$'s is the Mountainsmith LT.
http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?5447-Mountainsmith-mountain-shelter-lt

As far as bag & pad, I'm kinda a BigAgnes fan, I like the pad pocket.
Add in a good Bivy Bag and your set. I use an 6oz Oware bivy, big & roomy w/ large foot box.
A lot of my gear was bought from my fellow Roksliders.
Hunt'nFish

 

[_Nick_]

Have you guys used a single-hoop bivy, like the OR style? Seems to me that those would be much simpler than rigging a tarp for rain/dust storms. Bad weather rolls in, just zip up until it passes. I know you'd have to deal with the condensation, but is that as big an issue in the desert?

It's an option. But it's a bit heavier than my poncho tarp/ul bivy combo. I have not found condensation to be too much of an issue at all. I think in very cold desert temps the dew point could get pushed into the bivy/bag and that would lead to some pretty good condensation, but I haven't experienced that yet.

Other reason I like having the poncho tarp:
1) can serve as rain gear
2) can lay out to put deboned meat on
3) can set up as a sun shade for glassing sessions

Having only a heavy bivy would negate those benefits. But I can certainly see the appeal of a more simple shelter system.

 

[huntcurs]

A very good Tarp Shelter for the $$'s is the Mountainsmith LT.
http://www.rokslide.com/forums/showthread.php?5447-Mountainsmith-mountain-shelter-lt

As far as bag & pad, I'm kinda a BigAgnes fan, I like the pad pocket.
Add in a good Bivy Bag and your set. I use an 6oz Oware bivy, big & roomy w/ large foot box.
A lot of my gear was bought from my fellow Roksliders.
Hunt'nFish

That Mountainsmith is nice. I like the option to go fully enclosed (bottom gap excluded of course). Looks similar to one made by Kelty that I was looking at. I like the looks of the BA QCore as well.

It's an option. But it's a bit heavier than my poncho tarp/ul bivy combo. I have not found condensation to be too much of an issue at all. I think in very cold desert temps the dew point could get pushed into the bivy/bag and that would lead to some pretty good condensation, but I haven't experienced that yet.

Other reason I like having the poncho tarp:
1) can serve as rain gear
2) can lay out to put deboned meat on
3) can set up as a sun shade for glassing sessions

Having only a heavy bivy would negate those benefits. But I can certainly see the appeal of a more simple shelter system.

I definitely see all those advantages. Not to mention I could get the borah bivy and tarp for at least $100 cheaper. Also like the idea of using that poncho as a sunshade.

Alright, another question. Could I get away with a groundcloth and tarp for January, then upgrade to add a bivy before next fall, or would I be gambling on the weather to much there?

 

[_Nick_]

Alright, another question. Could I get away with a groundcloth and tarp for January, then upgrade to add a bivy before next fall, or would I be gambling on the weather to much there?

It just really depends on where in AZ you'll be. The winter is typically fairly dry in the desert, with most of the heavy precip coming during the summer and early fall monsoons. if you get rained on, it'll probably be in the form of lighter showers. I'd hazard a guess that a groundsheet/tarp (that you know how to pitch down tight!) would be just fine. Just shake out your bag before you get in it to check for scorpions that crawled in. Also, in general, check your stuff (like shoes) for scorpions/black widows before you put it on you. I like the bivy for the benefit of having to deal less with scorpions/widows. But, really, I think the risk posed by those critters is pretty minimal and that you'd be fine with tarp/groundsheet.

 

[huntcurs]

The scorpion issue was my reason for wanting to use the bug hut! But if I could save some space/weight by using a ground cloth and tarp, I think I might try it so I can get in some December scouting trips. Worst case scenario, I hike back to the truck and go buy a bivy. I will definitely be shaking out my boots though lol. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Bmcox86]

EE quilt/xtherm/tarptent double rainbow

 

[Hunt'nFish]

Are scorpions deterred by black pepper like ants are?
Hunt'nFish

 

[_Nick_]

EE quilt/xtherm/tarptent double rainbow

I had a double rainbow. Pretty good shelter, but a bit heavy relative to the options for desert camping, especially solo.

 

[_Nick_]

Are scorpions deterred by black pepper like ants are?
Hunt'nFish

I'm sure that they must be. I think I'll get a pound of black pepper and a quarter pound of super glue, you know, to line my sleeping bag with the stuff. I'll let you know how it works.

 

[5MilesBack]

They're making the fabric quieter (right now it's like sleeping on a bag of potato chips)

I always heard that.....but I just got one last month and it was fine. Evan's Exped next to me was louder than my Xtherm. I never even noticed any sound from it, and I was constantly flopping around on it.

 

[muleman]

I always heard that.....but I just got one last month and it was fine. Evan's Exped next to me was louder than my Xtherm. I never even noticed any sound from it, and I was constantly flopping around on it.

Interesting, my Xtherm is waaaaaaaaaay louder than a SynMat UL 7, DownMat UL 7, and SynMat UL 9. When I get some free time to find a sound meter app, I'll try to quantify the difference.