What are reasonable goals for group size?

[WTNUT]

A friend started my reloading adventure when I was 15 or 16. He was about 15 year older than I, and to this day is the only person with whom I have shot a rifle. I only reloaded and shot for myself and for hunting. 99.9 percent of the time it has been me, myself and I when shooting. So I really have no idea what good group sizes would be. I know when I feel good about a group and when I don’t. That is about it for the last 40 years.

I primarily shoot 7MM Mag, 270, 270 WSM, 300 Win Mag and 338 RUM. So by way of examples, what would be good group sizes for the 7MM and the 338 RUM at 200,300,400 and 500 yards. I really can’t shoot any further than maybe 550 yards at my place.

Just curious I guess. I also think this is a good question for others because I think some have unrealistic expectations.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Pickettpuncher]

In 10 shots, 1.25” group at 100 yards would be superb.

 

[wintersoldia]

In 10 shots, 1.25” group at 100 yards would be superb.

This is a perfect description of what you asking about.. and yes it’s a wonderful question

 

[deertrout]

This is so timely, I've been wondering the same thing. Shot a 1.5" group at 100 the other day, told my friend about some ideas I had to make it better and he told me that's already not bad, especially if I'm just shooting for hunting.

 

[Ram94]

This is so timely, I've been wondering the same thing. Shot a 1.5" group at 100 the other day, told my friend about some ideas I had to make it better and he told me that's already not bad, especially if I'm just shooting for hunting.

How many rounds in the group?

 

[Shortschaf]

Under 1 moa all the time
Under 3/4 moa most the time
Under 1/2 moa some of the time
Or better

Not to belabor anyone with statistics, I think it's reasonable to expect that with a custom barrel, premium components, and good shooting

 

[2-Stix]

There is a great podcast on Hornady about group size and posts on this site about it. Look around some. This has been discussed at length. Form has talked about group sizes a lot.

In a nutshell...20 shots to prove your rifle's cone of accuracy, 30 will give you a little more data, you should be about 1.5". Then go from there. It opens up the more you go out.

Anyone can shot a 1/2" 3 shot group. This is not enough data to tell you anything about your rilfe.

Here is the link to the group size data

 

[deertrout]

How many rounds in the group?

10

 

[Ram94]

10

Then yeah I agree, that’s a very acceptable group size.

 

[wapitibob]

If you can shoot 500 yards with regularity, that's where I'd shoot and do my group evaluation.

 

[WTNUT]

If you can shoot 500 yards with regularity, that's where I'd shoot and do my group evaluation.

Okay. We have lots of responses for 100 yards but none for longer yardages.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[max-x]

I find I can hold minute of angle with a compounded 5 or 10% per 100 yards past around 600 yards.

So at 1000 yds, a 14" group is where I know my own performance limit as a driver is at the moment. If I'm more precise, that's awesome, and if I'm less, I can probably think of why.

 

[Firestone]

Verifying dope this weekend. 8 shots at 980 yards

 

[TaperPin]

A friend started my reloading adventure when I was 15 or 16. He was about 15 year older than I, and to this day is the only person with whom I have shot a rifle. I only reloaded and shot for myself and for hunting. 99.9 percent of the time it has been me, myself and I when shooting. So I really have no idea what good group sizes would be. I know when I feel good about a group and when I don’t. That is about it for the last 40 years.

I primarily shoot 7MM Mag, 270, 270 WSM, 300 Win Mag and 338 RUM. So by way of examples, what would be good group sizes for the 7MM and the 338 RUM at 200,300,400 and 500 yards. I really can’t shoot any further than maybe 550 yards at my place.

Just curious I guess. I also think this is a good question for others because I think some have unrealistic expectations.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

With an accurate rifle I tend to think 2-1/2 moa is where most new shooters start.

2 moa requires at least a front rest, bipod or a good rest over a pack and better understanding of trigger control and practice.

1-1/2 moa needs both a front and rear rest, and significant practice, but the rifle is still more accurate than the shooter, except for older guns - most vintage guns older than a decade or two just don’t have the same quality of barrel we have today, in average. Maybe the unfortunate 10% of new rifles.

1-1/4 moa and better is much easier with a crisp 2 lb trigger, and this is about what many (80%) factory barrels today will shoot with minimal reloading fuss.

1 moa is a better than average factory rifle (10%) with a load it likes, but can be achieved with minimal fussing around if it’s an accurate custom barrel.

Very very few factory rifles will be consistent 3/4 moa guns with any reload. Many shooters don’t have their shooting technique squared away enough to shoot this good even if the rifle is capable. Most top custom barrels are probably close to this with a well worked up load. I think of it as twice as hard as getting a 1 moa gun to shoot.

To get to a 1/2 moa rifle requires solid shooting technique, solid reloading techniques and an above average accurate custom barrel. It’s twice as hard to pull off as a 3/4 moa gun. Many custom hunting weight rifles won’t shoot this good.

Many competition guns will shoot 3/8 moa, but that’s a full custom heavy barrel with tight chamber. When the wind is calm, groups in 1000 yard competitions are quite small.

 

[wapitibob]

Okay. We have lots of responses for 100 yards but none for longer yardages.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I expect to shoot just over 1 moa at 600 and 1000, which are the two distances I shoot.

 

[wind gypsy]

Okay. We have lots of responses for 100 yards but none for longer yardages.

Because its a very open ended question. In general with near perfect conditions, they should be a little larger in MOA than your 100 yard groups. But changes in conditions can be difficult to detect and thus identify why your group got bigger.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Okay. We have lots of responses for 100 yards but none for longer yardages.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Take my answer, and multiple it by whatever range you’re at. Shooting at 500, take 1.25x5=6.25”, 300 yards, 1.25x3=3.75”

 

[2-Stix]

The reason 100 yards matters most is that has the least amount of detectable factors. You start to stretch out, wind plays in. Wind tends to show up past the 400-yard mark on the kill zone for the game. On calm days I can hit steel at 600 85% of the time. Add a breeze and that goes away quick. I know for myself at 400 I am comfortable with some variable conditions. And from the bench and field are different also.

Starting with the proof on your rifle system, getting a confirmed 20-30 shot group to establish your zero, and then perfect conditions to take it further is the process needed as a base point.

I don't run dope, calc windage, I just dial and shoot and know that limits me to 400 yards unless it's perfect conditions. That has all been confirmed at the range with a bipod and back rest. So I know this will go down in the field. I have my base line to work from.

I know my 7rm is a 1.5" rifle. I have proofed it, the scope is a NF, the system is solid from the stock to the scope, and the ammo works. In perfectly simple terms, I ran the 1.5 x 6 for 600 to get 9", but that does not take into account the conditions. And I typically double that with some mild conditions.

I have spent many days running 15-20 shots at 200 so I know what to expect and shoots out to 400, 500 and 600.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Under 1 moa all the time
Under 3/4 moa most the time
Under 1/2 moa some of the time
Or better

Not to belabor anyone with statistics, I think it's reasonable to expect that with a custom barrel, premium components, and good shooting

This is a really good answer, DEPENDING on what you’re trying to accomplish downrange. This would be totally unnecessary for average hunting distances. However, If you’re trying to stretch things out, it’s a great standard. As others have stated, environmental factors make it very hard to verify beyond the 100 yard mark. Also, it’s going to take premium EVERYTHING and very proficient shooting to get anywhere close to that standard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MallardSX2]

If you can hit a pie plat every shot out to 400 yards in real world hunting conditions, you're doing better than 95% of the people who are walking around you in the woods.....

Including the guy wearing $1,500 worth of Kuiu gear......just saying.