What ammo to put in my 10mm for protection?

[Jesse Jaymes]

I've shot probably several hundred jackrabbits with the often touted "Keith" style cast bullets. Wide meplat. Sharp edges...blah blah blah. And I've watched hundred bound through the mesquite for sometime several hundred yards with near 1/2" holes through them. Completely unimpressed.

I also shot several with a 45-70 and 300 grain Sierras. I think chunks are still falling out of the atmosphere in SW New Mexico.

To each their own. But I think HC in a 10mil is a completely poor choice for probably.....every situation.

 

[slimC]

I run 180gr XTP or 200 gr Hardcast. No need for 220gr

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

A very poor example, but I just had to swap out a leaking water pressure tank. Typical 60+ gallon tank. Steel with internal bladder. It's going to be recycled so I shot it a few times. I am on a 45 Colt kick once again and discovered a bin of cast bullets from my Hard Cast Kool Aid era (see jackrabbit eradication a decade ago).

Shot a 18 Brinell 315 SWC at probably 1100fps end on. Dented but didn't exit the ass end.

A 275 Keith at same speed with a Brinell of 9 hardly formed a dent.

A 380ish Speed Gold Dot out of a 480 Ruger at 1000fps completely penetrated and left an nice exit. On game....I'll for sure take both the expansion and penetration.

 

[alpine_troop]

G9 Defense 95 gr 10mm EHP (“External Hollow Point”) is what’s loaded in my primary mag in the woods.

G9 10mm 95 gr External Hollow Point

G9 10mm 95 gr External Hollow Point

g9defense.com

I can’t offer any stories of performance on beasts, but I did get a chance to be the shooter for a ballistic demo of G9’s pistol bullets. They perform as advertised, period. Devastating wound cavities from pistol calibers, like rivaling rifle-like wound cavities. I had extensive conversations with the owner and designer, himself an avid hunter. I specifically asked about a 10mm bear defense load, which they didn’t have at the time (but they had 10mm bullets loaded as .40 S&W). The owner said he was more than confident carrying .40 in his bear defense sidearm with his bullets.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Anyone hunting bears right now, specifically BIG bears? If so, shoot them (after the fact) from multiple angles with a handgun with hard cast and hollow points. Record expansion (where applicable) and penetration.

Otherwise we're just jerking ourselves around thinking how a jackrabbit equals a deer which equals a black bear which equals a placid coastal/grizzly bear which equals an empty water heater which equals a 4x4 fence post which equals a coastal/grizzly bear hell bent on your destruction.

It is interesting that when rifle hunting there's concern about reaching the vitals from any angle. Yet when swapping to a handgun, which is typically ballistically inferior to most rifle cartridges, that concern magically disappears and a hollow point is all you need for all circumstances. I also guess that handgun ammo works as intended 100% of the time unlike rifle ammo which is known to not work as intended a ton of the time (look at all the threads about Bergers and ELD-X "failing").

 

[Wrench]

I sent a 45lc lengthwise through a whitetail. It dropped instantly. I killed another with a 44mag 240 jhp and it went almost nowhere. My 10mm to the face of the bear was a 200xtp and it did 16" of penetration. The death was instant, but it was smack in the forehead.

They all work, but the xtp is pretty special in the 10mm.

 

[fatrascal]

Read this.

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Alaska Outfitter Defends Fishermen from Raging Grizzly with 9mm Pistol

Two weeks ago, veteran outfitter Phil Shoemaker was guiding two fishing clients in the Alaska bush when the party came face to face with an enraged grizzly. Shoemaker, armed only with a 9mm semi-auto pistol, defended his clients and himself. Here’s his account …

www.americanhunter.org

I'm not telling anybody to use a 9mm for bear protection. I'm just pointing out that the guy was using hard cast bullets. I just did a lot of research on 10mm, which pistol I wanted and which bullets. Like the original poster I chose the Springfield XDM compact elite with 3.8" barrel. After watching many YouTube videos I chose the Buffalo Bore Outdoorsmans Hard Cast Bullets in 220 grain. Underwood's Hard Cast bullets are just as good. Bears have lots of fat and you have to get through it and into its vitals. A bullet that mushrooms will not get through the fat but the hard cast bullet will. I wanted a gun capable of a 15 shot capacity and the xdm is capable of that with a 15 round mag. High capacity option took my choices of firearms down to the Glock, Sig Sauer and Smith and Wesson. Only the xdm could handle the the high pressure loads of the hard cast bullets consistently based on youtube video research. So for me its the xdm with Buffalo Bore or Underwood hard cast. Fatrascal.

 

[fatrascal]

Another great story.

 

[mossyoak52]

50 cal desert eagle problem solved

 

[Wyobohunter]

I've shot probably several hundred jackrabbits with the often touted "Keith" style cast bullets. Wide meplat. Sharp edges...blah blah blah. And I've watched hundred bound through the mesquite for sometime several hundred yards with near 1/2" holes through them. Completely unimpressed.

I also shot several with a 45-70 and 300 grain Sierras. I think chunks are still falling out of the atmosphere in SW New Mexico.

To each their own. But I think HC in a 10mil is a completely poor choice for probably.....every situation.

There are several examples out there of hard cast doing it’s job when it really counts. Here is one.

Alaskans Stop Grizzly Bear Charge with Glock 10mm On Elmendorf-Richardson

A charging grizzly bear attack was stopped with a 10mm Glock pistol on Elmendorf-Richardson in September of 2018.

www.ammoland.com

Here is another (with a 9mm)

The Story of the Alaska Man Who Killed a Charging Brown Bear with a 9mm Pistol

It's a miracle this Alaskan fishing guide lived to tell the tale.

www.wideopenspaces.com

There is a reason they use solids (non expanding) for dangerous game in Africa. I bet if you polled Alaskan and northern Rocky Mountain guides you’d find a distinct preference for hard cast heavy for caliber bullets, regardless of the cartridge.

As you said. To each his own.

 

[mcseal2]

I’m no expert but have a few things to share.

Check your gun with whatever you choose. The Underwood Extreme Penetrator hit very high from my 10mm’s. 200gr hardcast hit the same as my 180gr practice ammo.

Videos I watched talked about the extreme penetrator bullets deflecting after a short distance. They had trouble catching them in gel blocks. They penetrate well, but not always straight they found.

Reliability has been an issue with hardcast and extreme penetrator to a lesser extent in my 10mm Glock and 1911. I shot quite a bit, gave them lots of opportunity to have issues. The newer Buffalo Bore 190gr mono-metal is expensive as hell, I think $2.66/round if I remember right. That said it shoots to the same point as my 180gr practice loads and feeds perfect in both handguns. It is worth a look if you have issues and want that type of performance.

 

[Agar426]

BTT

Apologies if this is a thread jack.....I just picked up the XD(M) Elite in 10mm for personal defense out in the woods. I'm in New Mexico, so our black bears aren't giant, but we do have our fair share of dumpster divers, so they can be pretty big. We also have a pretty solid mountain lion population, so this question is all of a sudden of great interest, so just wanted to bump it.

 

[KHNC]

If i was choosing again, it would be Underwood Hardcast over anything buffalo bore sells. They are off my list.

Underwood seems like a great company do business with.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Underwood in my G40 unless hunting CA where lead is no bueno...then I switch to the G9 Woodsman.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

BTT

Apologies if this is a thread jack.....I just picked up the XD(M) Elite in 10mm for personal defense out in the woods. I'm in New Mexico, so our black bears aren't giant, but we do have our fair share of dumpster divers, so they can be pretty big. We also have a pretty solid mountain lion population, so this question is all of a sudden of great interest, so just wanted to bump it.

Give Buffalo Bore Heavy 10mm Outdoorsman a try; my XDM Elite Compact 10 shoots it very well. For that matter my other handguns also shoot the Buffalo Bore ammo very well.

If that doesn't work for your handgun, then look at Underwood.

 

[Agar426]

Excellent, thank you for the feedback! Reading good things about all that have been mentioned. Underwood themselves are a huge proponent of their 140gr XP copper solid as well. Lots of choices it would seem...again, thank you!

 

[Strikezone]

If i was choosing again, it would be Underwood Hardcast over anything buffalo bore sells. They are off my list.

Underwood seems like a great company do business with.

Why off your list? Cost? Or other?

 

[KHNC]

Why off your list? Cost? Or other?

They were a crap company to deal with. The shipper they used sent a delivery confirmation, even though it was never delivered. They refused to answer the phone, only emails from some jackass rep they use for service. He insisted Buffalo Bore was NOT responsible for lost shipments and i would have to take it up with UPS. Took weeks to finally get a refund. In that time I ordered, paid and received ammo from Underwood for less money. And Underwood answers their phone.

 

[mcseal2]

For what it's worth I tried some Federal Fusion bonded 200 grain softpoint ammo. It fed fine and shot to the same point of impact as 200 grain Underwood Hardcast in my Sig 220 Hunter 10mm. On Kodiak this fall I carried a softpoint in the chamber and backed it up with hardcast. My thinking was if I got a chance at a deer with the pistol I'd have the softpoint as the first round, have it backed up with the deeper penetrating stuff. I thought the bonded softpoint should penetrate better than an XTP or similar hollow point while still being better on a broadside deer than a hardcast bullet. I never fired the pistol on the trip so no further details to report.