What About Low Light Performance

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I understand the insistence that a scope be able to track well and hold zero. That's a given. I'd be interested in how the scopes perform and the adequacy of the reticles in low light situations. I am talking about under the canopy of trees at 29 minutes after sunset on a cloudy day kind of low light conditions.

Will a scope allow you to make out details on the rack? Does the reticle allow you to "bracket" the vitals so that you know where the center is even if you can't see it? Is washout an issue? If illuminated, is the lowest setting still too bright?

Hog hunting is allowed at night in many places. How do the scopes work under a quarter moon?
 

Formidilosus

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I understand the insistence that a scope be able to track well and hold zero. That's a given. I'd be interested in how the scopes perform and the adequacy of the reticles in low light situations. I am talking about under the canopy of trees at 29 minutes after sunset on a cloudy day kind of low light conditions.

Will a scope allow you to make out details on the rack? Does the reticle allow you to "bracket" the vitals so that you know where the center is even if you can't see it? Is washout an issue? If illuminated, is the lowest setting still too bright?
Hog hunting is allowed at night in many places. How do the scopes work under a quarter moon?


There are almost no scopes that will allow you to make out details of a rack, 29 minutes after sunset, under canopy, when it’s cloudy.

As for true low light use, of those evaluated only the Minox ZP5 THLR and S&B 8x56mm are suitable. Pretty much all fully illuminated returns will wash out the view even in the lowest settings in really low light and certainly at night.

What you’re asking about are very specialized scopes that are specifically designed to be used like that. Of course some of these scopes could be pressed into it, and you might be able to pull off some shots, but the the only one that is truly suitable for short, medium, and long range, as well as night hunting without artificial illum is the Minox.
 
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Fartrell Cluggins
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I shot this doe right at 30 minutes after sunset on a moonless cloudy night. She was under the canopy. I was under a light layer of vegetation. Meopta Optika 5 RD. Lowest light setting turned on. I could have easily made out any antlers. I watched her do that head bob curiosity thing for a few seconds. She was facing me. I put the dot on her chest and pulled the trigger. Range was about 35 yards.

 

eoperator

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I spent some time out until dark tonight watching a few deer at ~250yrds, 6& 10x magnification.

Without illumination the TT & z5 definitely had an advantage over the others by a large margin. The rest of the group could be lumped together as somewhat even , with a mention of the 1-8 doing better than expected with such a small objective lens. The x5 would take last place due to the fine reticule that disappeared into darkness.

With illumination i preferred TT & nf 1-8 (coarse nf fc reticule covers alot at longer distance). All others had small +'s & -'s but could be lumped together as ok.

nf nx8 4-32 moar
swarovski z5 2.5-12x50 plex
zco 4-20mpct1
nf atacr 4-16x42 mil r
tt hunter 3-15x50
swarovski x5i 3.5-18x50 4x
nf nx8 1-8 fc

20220306_184322.jpg
 

mxgsfmdpx

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I shot this doe right at 30 minutes after sunset on a moonless cloudy night. She was under the canopy. I was under a light layer of vegetation. Meopta Optika 5 RD. Lowest light setting turned on. I could have easily made out any antlers. I watched her do that head bob curiosity thing for a few seconds. She was facing me. I put the dot on her chest and pulled the trigger. Range was about 35 yards.

I’ve been really impressed with the lowest illumination setting on Meopta vs some of the other illuminated reticle brand scopes I’ve used. Same story with their range finding binocular illumination, just absolutely sharp and can barely tell it’s illuminated.

I’ve killed too many animals to count right at last legal shooting light (thousands of squirells, rabbits, and coyotes, but many deer as well) and a good quality, crisp image and reticle is important.

Keep in mind that good quality and crisp image is different for everyone’s eye. Unfortunately a lot of hunters shoot with their non dominate eye and low light is one of the key contributors to expanding potential vision blurring, a sight picture appearing “ too dark”, and other issues on a non dominant eye.

Attempting to gatekeep low light conditions shooting is completely laughable.
 

fwafwow

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Ever since I started down the rabbit hole of Form's tests, I've been (a) thinking about how my current scopes might not fare well, and (b) of those I don't own that have done well in the tests, which would be ideal for my primary hunting, which is whitetail - often at first or last light? I did spend some time looking at the NF scopes and I got hung up on the reticle options, which I agree with what others (I believe including Form) have said - that the NF reticle options are limited for hunting applications.

But I did like the FC-DMx reticle on the ATACR 1-8x, and therefore I appreciate the @eoperator post above with the NX8 1-8x24.

Here's my current (admittedly superficial) concern - the 1-8x satisfies the "Form threshold" and I think should be good for my hunting needs, but does that scope look more at home on an AR instead of a bolt action, especially my wooden Coopers? I know, function is more important than form, but I'd love both. The 2.5-20x and 4-16x NX8s and ATACRs "look" like they belong on my rifles, and I'd buy one of each with a different reticle option.

BTW are the "Europe only" NF reticle options available in the US, on the secondary market or otherwise?
 

mi650

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I understand the insistence that a scope be able to track well and hold zero. That's a given. I'd be interested in how the scopes perform and the adequacy of the reticles in low light situations. I am talking about under the canopy of trees at 29 minutes after sunset on a cloudy day kind of low light conditions.

Will a scope allow you to make out details on the rack? Does the reticle allow you to "bracket" the vitals so that you know where the center is even if you can't see it? Is washout an issue? If illuminated, is the lowest setting still too bright?

Hog hunting is allowed at night in many places. How do the scopes work under a quarter moon?
That pretty much describes hunting in my woods. I've had deer 20 yards away in a light rain that I couldn't see with the naked eye 10 minutes after sunset.

The DNR here divides the state into zones, A, B, C,... Zone A goes by the DNRs published times, 30 minutes after sunset. Zone B adds 6 minutes, Zone C adds 12, and so on. I'm at the eastern edge of Zone B, so legal time for me is realistically 36 minutes after sunset. It gets DARK in my woods. A few years ago, about 15 minutes before last light, I missed a deer and hit a tree instead using a Nikon Pro-Staff.

I'm using a Leica Amplus6 3-18 now. It may not hold up to the drop test, and the reticle is a lot busier than I need, but at last light under my pines, I can see what I'm aiming at. For reference, I wasn't happy with either a VX-5 or VX-6. Tried a Swaro Z6, low light performance was great, but the parallax didn't work for me.
 

Macintosh

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I have a S&B klassik that is dismissed by the long range crowd because the dial movement limits ranges to “only” 500 yards give or take, plenty for me for a hunting scope. But the glass is pretty exceptional, to my eye easily comparable to any of the brands with a reputation for glass that I’ve looked through. Im sure the fixed power versions are even better. Never had a chance to look through any of the higher-end S&B scopes other than a much bigger PMIi at a match. I would imagine they’re a little better in low light although I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. The illumination is so dim on the lower couple of settings that it’s clearly designed for fully dark conditions. Even at last light, 29 minutes after sunset, in a dark, dark eastern spruce thicket, on a cloudy afternoon, Im really not sure I need the illumination at all most of the time...most of the time I have to turn it up to about setting four to even see the reticle is lit, 5 to really use it. Parts of northern Europe and Scandinavia you can hunt in the dark of night, so logically some scopes and the illumination are designed to be used in full dark. Thats the type of scope it sounds like you are after.
 
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Even though this thread is a little over 10 months old, and resurrected today, if a deer can't be SEEN by the naked eye, are you using the scope to scan the area? That would seem so by the description. Reconsider and use binoculars. Nothing is more disconcerting whether it's 20 yards or 200+ yards than to be looking back at a hunter that's looking at you through a scope. And missing a deer and hitting a tree because the target can't be made out, what does that say? There's so much not right with the restart of this thread.
 

Macintosh

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Even though this thread is a little over 10 months old, and resurrected today, if a deer can't be SEEN by the naked eye, are you using the scope to scan the area? That would seem so by the description. Reconsider and use binoculars. Nothing is more disconcerting whether it's 20 yards or 200+ yards than to be looking back at a hunter that's looking at you through a scope. And missing a deer and hitting a tree because the target can't be made out, what does that say? There's so much not right with the restart of this thread.
Never. I’ve been scoped several times before, and I do not like it, I will not do that to someone else. Its hard to describe on the interweb, but its totally normal to Be able to clearly identify that a deer has come into, say, 75 or 85 or 100 yards with your naked eye, and you can check if it’s a shooter with binoculars, but things like IDing branches, twigs, small trees, and getting a really good site picture in thick woods in the near-dark can still be very difficult. Having an open shooting lane where you’re not threading a shot through a zillion little branches is absolutely not the norm. For folks who shoot over old brushy fields from an elevated position like a ladder stand or box blind, There is usually a bit more ambient light, but still the issue of twigs and brush that are hard to see between you and the target in low light, and with longer ranges.This is all perfectly normal without using your rifle scope as an observation device or being irresponsible about it. If a scope gives you five or 10 minutes of extra shooting time, that’s often the best, most important five or 10 minutes of the entire day and makes a significant difference sometimes. If you aren’t used to hunting under such conditions it may sound foreign to you, so be it.
 
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Thanks Macintosh appreciate your reply.

I understand about errant twigs and branches. The post specifically said a tree. Which means a tree was somewhere between the shooter and the deer. The tree (not an errant branch or twig) couldn't be separated from the deer, that's something to think about. Agreed, binoculars should be part of anyone's hunting gear if they need to identify animals they can't clearly see with their naked eye. That would keep one from using the scope to identify deer at 20 yards in the rain that couldn't be seen without the scope.
 
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prm

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It’s all the branches and twigs. I think the glass on most lower mid-range scopes and above will allow me to see the deer in legal hours in those dark, heavy canopy, overcast times. The reticle to aim, and seeing the branches in the way are the limiting factor me.
 
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It’s all the branches and twigs. I think the glass on most lower mid-range scopes and above will allow me to see the deer in legal hours in those dark, heavy canopy, overcast times. The reticle to aim, and seeing the branches in the way are the limiting factor me.
What is your thought on binoculars?
 
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