Western Mountaineering vs outdoor vitals

[pyrotechnic]

I doubt you're going to be disappointed in a WM bag and the GWS would definitely add some piece of mind in really wet climates. I hope it works well for you.

 

[Freestone]

Thanks guys I think I’m gonna go with the Wind stopper for when I do Alaska hunts and such I just want something bomb proof

I put 58 straight nights in the badger GWS last year in Alaska and never felt clammy or had any loss of loft. Probably half of those nights were under a tarp paired with a bivy and the rest were in a tent. Also, have spent a lot of nights in a floorless without the bivy. Some of those nights were so windy and rainy I might as well have just slept outside because the condensation inside would rain down on me with the wind...GWS kept all the water on the outside. You won’t be disappointed.


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[wind gypsy]

So really leaning towards the GWS series as I plan on using this in a floorless during mid October through November December in snowy weather. Idaho tends to always get hit with a snow storm in October. It seems the clammy feel is a 50/50 some people get that feeling others have night, what have most of you guys seen that have owned/owns a GWS?

To me the biggest negative of gws is that the moisture will struggle to escape the bag. That moisture can stay in your insulation and degrades its effectiveness over the period of a trip. Thats why folks on true cold weather trips with GWS or waterproof shells use a vapor barrier (think garbage bag) around their body inside their bag to avoid that moisture being trapped in their down.

That said, obviously folks like the above poster seem to do fine with it.

 

[Gobbler36]

To me the biggest negative of gws is that the moisture will struggle to escape the bag. That moisture can stay in your insulation and degrades its effectiveness over the period of a trip. Thats why folks on true cold weather trips with GWS or waterproof shells use a vapor barrier (think garbage bag) around their body inside their bag to avoid that moisture being trapped in their down.

That said, obviously folks like the above poster seem to do fine with it.

arhghhghg whe i read this it gives me pause, wish i could try them out for a bit to see

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Get a WM and get it from Hermits Hut. Great company, fast shipping, and free overfill of down on their bags.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

To me the biggest negative of gws is that the moisture will struggle to escape the bag. That moisture can stay in your insulation and degrades its effectiveness over the period of a trip. Thats why folks on true cold weather trips with GWS or waterproof shells use a vapor barrier (think garbage bag) around their body inside their bag to avoid that moisture being trapped in their down.

That said, obviously folks like the above poster seem to do fine with it.

Aaron Linsdao used WMs GWS Bison to set a world record for longest survival expedition at the South Pole in Antarctica. He went from November to January and it got as low as -60. No goofy garbage bag required.

 

[wind gypsy]

Aaron Linsdao used WMs GWS Bison to set a world record for longest survival expedition at the South Pole in Antarctica. He went from November to January and it got as low as -60. No goofy garbage bag required.

Interesting. I wonder why he listed a WM vapor barrier liner on the “Antartica 2012-2013 gear list” linked in his website?

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[mxgsfmdpx]

Better safe than sorry for sure. If I was in -60 (which I wouldn’t be) I’d bring legit a hot sack as well (think not garbage bag). I’ve never needed one in any of my bags yet but the coldest camp I’ve been in was -5 F.

 

[wind gypsy]

So he just carried one with him but didn't use it?

More from andrew skurka on VBL: https://andrewskurka.com/vapor-barrier-liners-theory-application/

 

[MuleyFever]

I don’t see why it wouldn’t work. Another thing that’s nice about FF and WM is the temp ratings are pretty accurate, or even conservative if you’re a hot sleeper. If it says 5*, it will get you there(quality pad is a must but that’s any bag)... no need to overbuy like some other manufacturers that rate their bags very optimistically.

WM comfort ratings are not that close the the bag rating. If you will stay warm or not to the stated bag rating will depend on many factors. I would suggest anyone buying any bag look at the actual comfort rating. It may sway your decision.

 

[JeffRaines]

WM comfort ratings are not that close the the bag rating. If you will stay warm or not to the stated bag rating will depend on many factors. I would suggest anyone buying any bag look at the actual comfort rating. It may sway your decision.

Hm that’s interesting. I didn’t know they had ratings like that - at least last time I really looked they didn’t have the EN ratings like other manufacturers but my experience is they’re pretty close to rating.

Guess you learn something new everyday

 

[MuleyFever]

Hm that’s interesting. I didn’t know they had ratings like that - at least last time I really looked they didn’t have the EN ratings like other manufacturers but my experience is they’re pretty close to rating.

Guess you learn something new everyday

Just as an example that I remember I looked at the 10 degree versalite. That bags comfort rating is 21 degrees I believe.

 

[JeffRaines]

Just as an example that I remember I looked at the 10 degree versalite. That bags comfort rating is 21 degrees I believe.

Where did you find it? Looking on their website it isn’t anywhere obvious.

 

[MuleyFever]

Where did you find it? Looking on their website it isn’t anywhere obvious.

Look in the FAQ section under specs I believe.

Edit- It's under tech details, last line.

 

[wind gypsy]

WM comfort ratings are not that close the the bag rating. If you will stay warm or not to the stated bag rating will depend on many factors. I would suggest anyone buying any bag look at the actual comfort rating. It may sway your decision.

Depends on the model. Megalite is 30 degree bag with tested EN comfort temp of 32 degrees. That and it doesn't have a draft collar like the 20 degree and warmer bags that have a bigger gap between rating and tested comfort level. Things like the draft collars materially impact how warm the bag sleeps but doesn't materially register in EN testing. I think they have earned a pretty good reputation over time with their temperature ratings.

From the website:

We independently verify our temperature ratings through our own testing, customer feedback and design knowledge. Most of the items in our catalog we have been making for years, which means we have lots of prior knowledge from everyday consumers on what ratings are accurate. We have also EN tested our bags. Our claimed ratings that appear on this website and on our specifications chart do not represent the EN test results for a given product. In most cases the ratings we claim generally fall in between the Comfort Ratings and the Lower Limit Rating for the bags which have been tested using the EN 13537 standard. We have always tried to publish temperature claims that many customers have indicated are more conservative than the industry standard. We do this to ensure that almost everyone will be happy in our bags at the temperature we publish. The ratings we claim represent a temperature that we consider as the low end of a sleeping bags intended warmth range when used correctly. “Correct use” includes proper care and maintenance, insuring that the bag is positioned correctly throughout the night (with the top of the bag above you and the bottom of the bag under you) and always using a suitable ground mat or insulated sleeping pad. Lightweight air mats should not be filled with moist air from human lungs, especially if there is any chance of the lowest temperature might drop below freezing. Here is a list of all of the bags that we have had EN rated, note the differences between the WM Ratings, the Comfort Rating, and the Lower Limit.

 

[pyrotechnic]

I don't know how they rate bags for comfort. If the way it is done doesn't take a draft collar into account then that is a huge variable. Whether or not you cinch that guy up makes a huge difference.

Again, I just have the one night close to the 5 deg bag rating in my antelope so I am by no means an accomplished cold weather camper. But I had to loosen up the draft collar around 4am as I woke up feeling really hot. The lowest it got the other nights was down in the teens and low 20s. I didn't bother with the collar.

Sample size of one person and one bag, but base on my experience and everything I've read the WM bag ratings are pretty close to a comfort rating.

 

[jt4]

As mentioned above

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[MuleyFever]

Depends on the model. Megalite is 30 degree bag with tested EN comfort temp of 32 degrees.

Funny you pick the one, and only, bag with a difference in temp ratings under 10%. So you're right, depends on the model. The sequoia MF is off by 260%

Almost all companies do this. It's annoying and they should all be required to use the comfort rating.

Based on the chart from WM their bags rating is on average 75% higher than the comfort rating.

I'm looking at the Antelope MF or Versalite. I may go with Stone Glacier though. For some reason sleeping bags are tough to decide on.

 

[Gobbler36]

Funny you pick the one, and only, bag with a difference in temp ratings under 10%. So you're right, depends on the model. The sequoia MF is off by 260%

Almost all companies do this. It's annoying and they should all be required to use the comfort rating.

Based on the chart from WM their bags rating is on average 75% higher than the comfort rating.

I'm looking at the Antelope MF or Versalite. I may go with Stone Glacier though. For some reason sleeping bags are tough to decide on.

Funny you pick the one, and only, bag with a difference in temp ratings under 10%. So you're right, depends on the model. The sequoia MF is off by 260%

Almost all companies do this. It's annoying and they should all be required to use the comfort rating.

Based on the chart from WM their bags rating is on average 75% higher than the comfort rating.

I'm looking at the Antelope MF or Versalite. I may go with Stone Glacier though. For some reason sleeping bags are tough to decide on.

Yes they are I’m in quite the conundrum, I really like stone glacier products but the sleeping bag is 6’6 and I am 5’8 so it’s a lot of wasted space to heat and it just errks me it’s not made in the US so that alone narrows the companies to choose from but it’s not a total deciding factor

 

[MuleyFever]

Yes they are I’m in quite the conundrum, I really like stone glacier products but the sleeping bag is 6’6 and I am 5’8 so it’s a lot of wasted space to heat and it just errks me it’s not made in the US so that alone narrows the companies to choose from but it’s not a total deciding factor

For sure stick with a 6' length. Have you looked at a Nunatak? Hand made in Moab, Utah. I think his temp rating is generous though based on fill weight. He has custom lengths though.