Western Mountaineering/Feathered Friends Fails?

[Fins_N_Tines]

Pretty much got the same answer form Western Mountaineering that Matt G at FF when I asked them a few years ago:

Thanks for your email. This might be a lot more info than you bargained for when you asked the question about treated down.

Currently we do not offer any bags with hydrophobic treated down because as of today we still have no compelling evidence that it provides better overall performance throughout the life of our product. We have been testing treated hydrophobic down from three of the major industry suppliers (i.e. DriDown, DownTek, and ResistDown) since December 2013 but nothing has prompted us to strongly consider using it in our products based on the collective feedback from the tests thus far. Our plan it to continue testing for long term performance comparisons but up to this point we have been underwhelmed. Comparing any of the treated down with our goose down is like comparing at the fresh powder snow in the backcountry to the slush in the parking lot of a ski resort. We currently don't have plans to use hydrophobic down in the near future.
We have done quite a bit of testing and due to multiple factors we have seen little performance difference between our down and hydrophobic down. A few of our tests have involved sending out sleeping bags and jackets that were cut in half and have one half hydrophobic one half normal down. In every case users where unsure which was which or if there was a difference at all. These samples were used for months at a time, some of them for nearly a year straight. We believe this is because of the water resistance and breathability in our shell technology.

DriDown, DownTek, and ResistDown)

Although I have not seen a real-world difference between treated and non-treated down, the 3 treated downs referenced above and by WM are in my opinion the standard in REI type box stores, but not as good as Hyperdry and Quixdown. I would much more rather see testing with these two as they are used more in hunting companies.

 

[SoloWilderness]

My WM bag is at least 20 years old, it is one of the older generation Antelope super dryloft (shell only) bags. I've gotten it damp enough a few times (mostly from condensation in a sealed up tent) that I could feel the moisture. Still kept me toasty warm. I run an OR helium bivy over mine for added wind and moisture resistance, and to add a few degrees to the temp rating. I've slept out during 4th season in it, never got cold. Incredible bags, I wouldn't sweat the treated vs. non-treated down with them. You can also send bags back to them for re-lofting and re-treating.

 

[Theringworm]

It seems some people simply can’t get out of their own way on here. I own both brands and they are the two best brands offered, and have been for many many years. If someone hasn’t reached a failure point on either brands bag in the 30+ years mountaineering, backpacking, and hunting all over the world, I can promise you, no one on here will be the person that does.

 

[ReptoidArmament]

I choose to run FF and WM products mainly because they have been beat to shit by hundreds of mountaineers in far worse conditions than I will ever experience on a hunt. If it’s good enough for a Denali or Himalayan expedition it’s good enough for me.

 

[Formidilosus]

So here’s the issue with that test. Regardless if it’s treated or non-treated down if damp down gets compressed it’s going flat for sure. So what they did not show is the bottom of the bag they were laying on. Dollars to doughnuts a good portion of it was flat.

This is an old post, but it came up and I just read it. Where the SG bags and clothing gets completely soaked and compressed for long periods it loses loft. However, within a couple of minutes of the flat spot not being compressed it lofts back up very quickly.

 

[Marmots]

For whatever it's worth I've never had a problem with my WM ultralight wetting out. I've gotten in the bag after getting rained or sleeted on dozens of times. It wicks water away, you warm up, and then your body heat pushes the water through. The top quality untreated down and the modern technical shell are a great combo. I've even passed out exhausted on the beach and woke up with waves lapping at the foot of my bag. It's remarkable how much the shell mitigated my bad decision.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Easier to regurgitate what they've read online and been told by "experts" than to actually look up facts.

Concerned folks should look at the waterproof rating of the material used on the bag(s) in question and compare those values against popular tents.

Crazy that a person can be totally onboard with using a Kuiu Mountain Star (HH 1200 mm) or MSR Hubba Hubba (HH 1200 mm) tent in bad weather but poop themselves when they contemplate using a down bag and there is a remote chance that drop of water could get on it (WM ExtremeLite fabric: HH 1200 mm, WM Microfibre fabric: HH 2000 mm, WM Gore WindStopper fabric: HH 12000mm).

 

[Diwoochoo]

After use you have to realize that those hydrophobic coatings will eventually wear off and you'll be back to using the equivalent of untreated down.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Thats what Nixwax Down Wash Direct is for. Cleans oils out of down and retreats them to revive their hydrophobic properties.

 

[SkyislanderAZ]

This was never a question of whether or not these two companies made a quality product. I want to know what it takes to make this thing fail.

There still hasn't been a good answer to that. There are a few explanations of things going wrong and the bag holding up fine, but still no examples of this thing failing. This was also not intended to be a thread searching for posts to help me make the most popular and community pleasing decision.

I genuinely want to know at what point of use/abuse a WM bag breaks down.

I know this is a really old threat but I had to jump in. I sold a WM terralite to somebody online and they were replacing theirs ...due to a marmot attack (on the bag) while they were away from camp, marmots went 'Chevy Chase' on his terralite. I guess it was beyond repair. Im sure WM customer support would remember that one. Oh, and my baby darling Shiba Inu made a whole in one of my WM MF Alder. I have one pic I titled "some day I'm going to eat a hole in your brand new bag" and one day, she did just that. I love them both so much (bag and dog) I kept them both.