Vortex scope not quite what i thought?

[JeffRaines]

They are junk and it is somewhat of a mystery to me why so many people think they are awesome??

Here’s the deal, for one the average consumer sees these ads where they’ve replaced someone’s scope they shot or lost in a fire and think MAN THATS AWESOME forgetting that you kinda have homeowners/renters insurance(for the fire at least)... the no fault part sounds great because hey, everyone has accidents. Finally, if it’s a lifetime warranty like snap on, craftsman, etc people think they must really have a great product.

Fact of the matter is, most optics in their lineup are overpriced for what you get... probably due to the fact that they’re compensating for that warranty. Seriously, outside of the Diamondback they don’t have a best in price optic... look in each category and there’s always a better optic.

Most other reputable brands offer a similar warranty. Some aren’t no fault, but honestly if I fall and break my scope it’s not the manufacturers fault my scope broke. Same with the fire example, it’s not the manufacturers fault my house burned down. Nor is it their fault that I ran it over. It’s my fault. I’d rather be responsible for me and have them be responsible for making/sourcing a good optic. If it doesn’t dial or the insides go all twisty then yeah it’s on them and they should(and most do) warranty this stuff with no questions.

I’d venture that a lot of the glowing reviews, especially from their lower end stuff, are from guys who aren’t really using the optic “hard”. I don’t mean abusing it - Im talking guys who shoot a couple rounds at the range each year to check zero and then go hunt. Guys who dial occasionally for fun or plinking purposes. You look at guys who try to USE the lower end scopes and you see a lot of failures... it’s only a matter of time before the other guys start to see the same failures. Of course, you also have to consider that like any optics company, they will put out good and bad scopes.

Finally, you gotta understand that most scope companies - vortex, SWFA, Bushnell, hell even low end Nightforce, source their optics from overseas manufacturers... and some are better than others. Any vortex scopes made in Japan are likely produced by LOW, which also makes some of NFs lower end scopes, SWFA scopes and the Bushnell elite series which all get favorable reviews... likewise, if you got one of those Japanese Vortex scopes you’d likely have a decent scope on your hands.

 

[RMajors]

Maybe look at the Tract Toric scopes. Probably a bit more expensive, but they have Schott glass and track reliably

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Warranties are great if the vendor actually repairs/replaces the item. My experiences with Vortex and their "world class" warranty have been mostly horrific.

Here's my experience with Vortex support and what they have me do:
1) Dial the elevation up all the way. Count the number of clicks "down".
2) Dial the elevation back "up" to the halfway point (number of clicks from #1).
3) Dial the windage all the way left. Count the number of clicks "right".
4) Dial the windage back "left" to the halfway point (number of clicks from #3).
5) Place scope against mirror. Adjust elevation and windage until crosshairs are perfectly aligned.
6) Mount scope.
7) Go to range to set your zero.
8) Pray that you have enough usable elevation/windage to get to your desired zero. (my part and not from Vortex).
9) Repeat steps 6 and 7 if you cannot set your zero due to lack of elevation and/or windage.
10) Do this repeatedly and waste a ton of ammo and time (my part and not Vortex).
11) Send scope to Vortex for repair.
12) Scope is perfect. Furthermore 1) the person who mounted the scope is incompetent and/or 2) your rifle is at fault.
13) Install 20-MOA base and you can now set your zero. (my part and not Vortex). The scope and firearm are now mostly useable due to the 20-MOA band-aid that you had to install. (my part and not Vortex)
14) Ask Vortex why you can now set your zero with a 20-MOA base and get told "see, the scope is perfect".
15) Cuss up a storm and vow to never give Vortex another penny. (my part and not Vortex).

If you've had great luck with their warranty, then I am genuinely happy for you. I've gone through those steps, and others, far too often to waste any more time, money, and ammo with their non-Razor products.

 

[JeffRaines]

The Gen2 Razor and AMG are outstanding optics, and the ATACR line is good as well. I wouldn't touch a Diamondback or most of the Viper line nor would I touch an SHV or NXS.

So the Gen II is head and shoulders above the NXS and SHV? Last I checked they’re sourced from the same factory.

While I understand that each brand can have a scope manufactured to their specifications... when it comes to 30/34mm tubes there cannot be that many different internal options when it comes to windage/elevation adjustment especially from the same manufacturer. Glass and coatings? Sure. Tube construction? Absolutely. Reticles? Yes.

Not trying to call you out, you sound like you know what you’re talking about so some clarification would be nice here.

 

[Marbles]

There are lots of things that influence price within the mechanics of a scope. Coming out of the same factory means nothing. This ranges from what components are made out of (plastic to steel) to how they are made (cast, milled, heat treat, coatings, Etc.) and to if components are designed to be easy to manufacture and assemble or with reliability being the only goal. A none optics example is the difference in a Mauser 98 action and a Winchester model 70 action.

In almost all things, incremental improvements get smaller while cost goes up significantly.

Everything can fail, it is the frequency of failures that matter. In the absence of hard data one is left having to guestimate based on anecdote. Anecdote makes me less then thrilled with the idea of having a Vortex or Leupold 2 or 3 days hike from the trail head. However, that Sniper's Hide thread has me thinking I might not buy another NF optic. My guess is a problem with one would show up early, but I would not want to deal with them to make it right. Wish I was wealthy and could torture test things myself along with tear them down to see the internal build quality.

 

[HighUintas]

Yeah the G2R is a better optic than the SHV and NXS. They are also very obviously different designs: different erector assemblies, eyepieces, turrets, main tubes, likely different coatings, etc. For reference, the 7-35 ATACR is made in Japan as are the SHVs - even NF fanboys should be able to recognize that those two optics are not even close to the same class.

There’s two things being said here: Especially on this forum, there’s lots of baseless claims (followed by mindless regurgitation) that only Super Snipers and Nightforce track and retain zero. Outside of this forum it’s widely know that there are tons of optics in 2020 that are mechanically solid. Knowing that different brands use the same manufacturing facility as the Rokslide favorites should be an obvious tell.

Now the second thing is just because 2 optics come out of the same manufacturing facility doesn’t mean they are the same in terms of feature set or that they are equal optically. I wouldn’t be overly concerned that an SHV wouldn’t track within a couple percentage points, but $1,300 for an optic with comparatively sloppy & mushy turrets, crappy reticle selection. 3.5x erector, 30+ oz, mediocre optics, etc., is just silly.

I’d bet many/most of you have seen this, but below are the tracking results from Frank Galli & Marc Taylor:
View attachment 235527

Where did that data come from? I assume the number is how close they are to tracking perfectly?

 

[260madman]

Where did that data come from? I assume the number is how close they are to tracking perfectly?

They track every students scope that takes their classes. Mount them on a fixture and spin the turrets for repeatability. Anything Frank says I’d believe. He tells it like it is.

 

[freddyG]

Wow, a lot of ignorance on full display throughout this thread by guys talking about Brands as a whole

Brands don't have manufacturing plants to crank out their optics. Almost everything is made or sourced outside of the US, and many different optics brands are being pumped out by the same manufacturer and then just branded different. Saying all Vortex is garbage is exactly as retarded as saying all NF is good. The Gen2 Razor and AMG are outstanding optics, and the ATACR line is good as well. I wouldn't touch a Diamondback or most of the Viper line nor would I touch an SHV or NXS.

Not to mention that every model will have some sort of failure rate - stuff breaks & life goes on. There's a long thread on Snipershide about a dude that had to sue NF to replace a defective optic - I bet warranty matters to that dude now. I've also had a $2,500 optic that needed repair for a parallax problem. I was treated well with that issue and would buy that optic again. I currently have a $3k optic that will likely need to go back to fix an illumination issue - life happens. That sole issue won't define that particular optic or optic line as a whole, but how I'm treated will definitely matter.

Each optic stands on its own merits. Unless you're a fanboy, the brand logo on the side really means nothing.

While some of the stuff in this post is true. Most is way too much of a generalization. NXS scopes are one of the best scopes out there. They are tougher than an ATACR. There were also some NXS made in the US.

I think the takeaway here is, don’t believe everything you read on the internet. Do as much research as you can, and make an informed decision based on your needs.

 

[HighUintas]

The numbers are a percentage of tracking. 100 is 100% (perfect). Each scope is a student’s optic that was brought to a class put on by Marc and Frank.

Many of us in the real world have setups to static mount and check tracking on a calibrated tracking board. There are a whole lot of mechanically solid options in today’s market.

Found the post on snipershide. I've never done a tracking test, but I'm interested to see how mine does.

 

[BigRutt]

I think I am in the same boat I keep thinking about buying vortex but the more I read you only want Razor gen ii or amg's

 

[freddyG]

Nothing sucks more than chasing tour tail over a scope that shifts POI around. I went through this a few times, the last one being with a Swaro. Nothing but SWFA and Nightforce for me now.

 

[TradLife406]

Aaahhh as long as we're on the topic...

I had a Hst LR. The coatings/glass were horrible. I sent it back and they sent it back and said it was fine. The glass was flat horrible for a scope with an MSRP of $600! My Leupolds of the same value are 10x better!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[5RWill]

They are junk and it is somewhat of a mystery to me why so many people think they are awesome??

Their lower end stuff has some QC issues. We have a couple of their PST Gen IIs and haven't had issue with them. I've never bothered with or used anything lower on the price spectrum than that and expected it to have the tracking or durability of a premium optic, because it isn't. Having said that I admittedly love my AMG and my Gen 2 razor. Though i've used almost everything under the sun ZCO, TT, and Hendsolt withstanding, i wouldn't consider them junk.

However as to answer your question, it's because at the time they fielded the Gen II razor there wasn't much on the market offering it's quality, features, and track record for the money comparable to NF, S&B, and the lot. It was sort of the first more affordable high end scope with a great reticle, turret design, zero stop, and no question asked warranty. That and they started offering FFP scopes with decent reticles, features, and moderate glass quality before anyone else on the market with the original PST.

Fact of the matter is they make a quality optic, their lower end stuff has QC issues. But their high end stuff has been pretty dang good.

Nothing sucks more than chasing tour tail over a scope that shifts POI around. I went through this a few times, the last one being with a Swaro. Nothing but SWFA and Nightforce for me now.

Agreed it will make you lose faith in a brand quickly. Truthfully it's just part of it though. I saw someone mention leupold in this thread. I absolutely loathed/hated my mark 6. Thing was 2/10ths off straight out of the factory. However they corrected most of the draw backs of that design and their QC with the Mark 5 and i love that scope. Also took a risk on the VX6HD, haven't had any issues yet.

Finally, you gotta understand that most scope companies - vortex, SWFA, Bushnell, hell even low end Nightforce, source their optics from overseas manufacturers... and some are better than others. Any vortex scopes made in Japan are likely produced by LOW, which also makes some of NFs lower end scopes, SWFA scopes and the Bushnell elite series which all get favorable reviews... likewise, if you got one of those Japanese Vortex scopes you’d likely have a decent scope on your hands.

Nightforce's ED glass is directly spec'd from LOW last i checked which means their ATACR and NX8. Not their lower end stuff. LOW is an OEM for quite a lot of reputable brands these days. Also the LOW products for Vortex are their higher end Razor lineups. Produced in Japan, assembled here in the US with the exception of the AMG. Which is 100% US made other than the reticle. The PSTs and most of the buget scopes people are complaining about are made in the phillipines.

 

[echampion8]

I am with the other guys that say the razor line is the only way to go with vortex optics. I have not been impressed by the glass quality versus competitors in the same price range. I only own a scope and binos in the razor line simply because they are made in Japan. Moving forward I will not own any optics made in China.

 

[Rich M]

Interesting. I’ve got a vx2 sitting in a 30-06. Mailed it from GA to AK. Gun case was cracked and the rifle had shifted significantly. Took it out and held zero. Banged it into a tree as I flipped down a hill on a snowmachine. Held zero. 8 years and I’ve yet to touch the zero. It’s been mailed 4 times with 4 moves.
Turned me into a Leupold fan for life.

I have one of the old vx2s and it is the same. Holds an inch at 250.

Bought a vx3i thinking it would be as good. Shoots 3-6 inches at 250. Put vx2 back on and it's a 1 inch gun again.

Just ordered a V Diamondback for the bdc for a 350 Legend. Couldn't Find any other sub-500 scopes w bdc. Burris has em but couldn't get any in stock.

I'm not a dialer. Nowhere to shoot longer ranges.

 

[Yukon Cornelius]

I have one of the old vx2s and it is the same. Holds an inch at 250.

Bought a vx3i thinking it would be as good. Shoots 3-6 inches at 250. Put vx2 back on and it's a 1 inch gun again.

Just ordered a V Diamondback for the bdc for a 350 Legend. Couldn't Find any other sub-500 scopes w bdc. Burris has em but couldn't get any in stock.

I'm not a dialer. Nowhere to shoot longer ranges.

I always enjoyed the Diamondback line. More so than the viper line in a scope. I’m still Leupold on my main rifles but two now have vortex.

 

[Storman]

I have two vortex viper HSLR's 6-24 FFP, one on a 6.5X284 and one on a 300 WM. Both were bought brand new and the one on the 6.5 has been fine, the other was broken out of the box, which took a fair amount of ammo to figure it out. Are they not all they're cracked up to be? Sent the broken one back and had it fixed, Vortex is great about that, but now I am questioning how they will hold up after a while. I don't shoot further than 600y when hunting, but use the turrets on anything over 300y (both shooting steel and hunting). Is there a better scope in that price range or i may have got a rare broken out of the box scope?

No question they will fix or send an new one but man are they junk. They are cheaply made and that’s why they can do that. Leupold, or zeiss you can’t beat the quality or clarity .

 

[Fadetoblack188]

great i was a week away from ordering a viper hst 4-16 after a week of constant research and indecisiveness.

this thread has put me right back to " indecisive"

 

[2ski]

I do have to say this, you all think you have it bad having to send your Vortex in for warranty work repeatedly. I have a pair of Zen Ray Prime HD binos that have a no fault warranty too, and I need to send them in to get the eye cups fixed.......

I also have a pair of Alpen 12x50 that I bought for a throw around pair in the truck. They have a loose eye cup. They too have a no fault warranty.

So you could be me.

 

[wind gypsy]

I’d bet many/most of you have seen this, but below are the tracking results from Frank Galli & Marc Taylor:
View attachment 235527

I was in one of those classes with Marc and Frank this August. A Mark 5 in the class had 100% ghost clicks when adjusted more than 20ish MOA from 0. I wonder if they call that 90%? They called it a "fail" at the class.