Vortex Razor HD LHT 4.5-22x50mm Q&A

[packgoatguy]

SWFA absolutely wins in the fugly category!


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Hey, i think my 3-9x42HD looks great... but only when I add the globs of pink fingernail polish on every ring screw!

 

[packgoatguy]

Go to any other forum and the swfa isn’t held in nearly the same regard as it is on RS. To say it would be an upgrade is laughable…of course, just my opinion. Coming from someone that has had both. I did buy a nightforce Nxs and it seems to be a nice scope, heavier than hell though.

I'd say what is laughable is how good a scope like the swfa 3-9x42hd is (for $419.97) compared to a grand or two for many scopes its often compared to. I've got an nx8, a tenmile, and (had the lht) along with the old and new versions of the PST, a z5, and a vx6. When I have novice shooters look through them, the swfa tends to come out near or on top (from kids and others who have no clue what a nighforce costs...). It might be they just like the wider apparent field of view, or maybe they naturally gravitate to the simple design... I dunno... but I do know that 6 newbie hunters took 5 deer and 4 elk with my 3-9x42hd this fall... all one shot drops. It still was at zero when I put it back in the safe a few weeks ago.

Maybe the other scope manufacturers could take a lesson from swfa... build a reliable scope with decent glass, ffp, good reticle, dialable turrets, that doesn't cost a fortune... and people will buy it I guess. Even if it doesn't win in the looks department.

That said... I have a 10x fixed SWFA that I'm pretty sure has an issue... so no body is perfect??

 

[packgoatguy]

Glass quality - lht
Turrets - lht
Zero stop - lht
Locking turret - lht
Warranty - lht
Durability - supposedly swfa but form just said if drop them on their turret they break/bend.

Go to some other forms and search swfa. They aren’t NEARLY as popular as they Are on RS. Fact. Ok now I’m done. Carry on…

I'd give the warranty category to SWFA... assuming the swfa scopes ultimately have fewer issues needing warranty repair....

I used to love the idea of a company with a warranty like vortex has built their reputation on... but after a few unsavory scope issues in the field over the years, I decided that I would trade vortex's warranty for a better product upfront any-day. I dont ever want to have to deal with a warranty, because that means something went wrong... and for me, that probably means it probably went wrong at the worst possible time.

Honestly, I have a lot of respect for the folks at vortex... I spoke with them at length about my lht, and my worries related to the testing done here. I got the sense that they really believe in their products, and they believe that providing their awsome warranty is what the consumer needs.... and I was more than happy to give them a chance to prove their scopes would hold up... but in the end I sent mine back, having never even mounted it, because the only assurance they could give was that they would fix it or replace it IF it failed. And when they weren't willing to repeat Form's drop testing in their own controlled lab space, I just didn't have the confidence I needed to keep a $1600 scope on a rifle that I needed to be confident in every time I picked it up.

They put a ton of sake in their warranty... because that is what most average consumers are ok with... and frankly, it's probably a lot cheaper in their business model to plan on replacing x-percentage of scopes, rather than the cost of R and D it takes to produce a better product up front. Then there is the fact that it is also built into the business model of many modern businesses (unfortunately) that they want their products to require replacement due to obsolescence or dwindling functionality after a certain number of years... because that means more buyers for their products down the road. Long gone are the days when companies competed for our business by providing products that could be expected to last a lifetime. Sorry... end of soapbox.

 

[Reburn]

SWFA absolutely wins in the fugly category!


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Also in the "how can we make the turrets so damn big that they dont fit in a safe well" catagory.

 

[fwafwow]

They put a ton of sake in their warranty...

 

[mtnwrunner]

Hey, i think my 3-9x42HD looks great... but only when I add the globs of pink fingernail polish on every ring screw!

That is a requirement.

Randy

 

[Huntin Fool]

I’ve never in all my life seen a place like rokslide where a company having a hell of a good warranty is a bad thing……

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

I’ve never in all my life seen a place like rokslide where a company having a hell of a good warranty is a bad thing……

I don't think most people are hating on the warranty itself, that is a GREAT thing. I think it's more so the irony that you will indeed USE that great warranty...and quite often I might add. 5 vortex scopes through 3 different rifles and I had had enough. Warranty...great! Product....eeehhh

 

[Huntin Fool]

I don't think most people are hating on the warranty itself, that is a GREAT thing. I think it's more so the irony that you will indeed USE that great warranty...and quite often I might add. 5 vortex scopes through 3 different rifles and I had had enough. Warranty...great! Product....eeehhh

Can I ask what scopes they were? I don’t personally own any scopes but have yet to use the warranty either. Owning fury binoculars I plan to use it someday, what are the odds a rangefinder lasts a lifetime

 

[Brandon.miller.4]

Can I ask what scopes they were? I don’t personally own any scopes but have yet to use the warranty either. Owning fury binoculars I plan to use it someday, what are the odds a rangefinder lasts a lifetime

I have no idea the lifespan of the rangefinders but I had a set of talon binos that I dropped from waisted high and the glass had shifted in the housing making them unusable. The scopes were diamondback tactical 4-12?, viper hs-t 4-16, viper 6-24, strike eagle 6-24, and prism 3x. They would all "loosely" hold zero causing me to believe I had an accuracy issue, I spent alot of money on ammo chasing my tail, threw on a NF NXS and all of a sudden my fliers and loose groups were gone. It opened my eyes. So I decided to run some tests and NONE of them would return to their already "loose" zero after significant dialing. For years I was under the belief that you always had to check zero before hunts. I still do because I like pulling the trigger but God damn is it nice when the bullets go where they are supposed to every time I decide to check. At one time I was a vortex believer because of glass and features, now I'm a grumpy swfa scoundrel that gives no shits about a feature and likes items to work. For what it's worth my guns all wear swfa or nightforce now and going forward. Others claim to have success with vortex and I suppose I did too, but it required re-zeroing frequently and to be frank that is pretty unacceptable to me anymore.

 

[packgoatguy]

I’ve never in all my life seen a place like rokslide where a company having a hell of a good warranty is a bad thing……

I love their warranty for optics like range finders... I've got a leupold range finder that is out of warranty and the readout screen is slowly fading, eventually It won't be anything but a paperweight... which wouldn't be an issue with an unlimited lifetime guarantee... but diagnosing an issue with my rangefinder, spotter, or binos doesn't cost me ammo or a bad shot on an animal. Rifle Scopes should be held to a higher standard IMHO. And a good warranty shouldn't be an excuse to put out a sub par product to begin with.

 

[cmahoney]

I’ve never in all my life seen a place like rokslide where a company having a hell of a good warranty is a bad thing……

The warranty is great, I’ve used it and ONE of the times was when a spotting scope fell apart during a hunt. I’d rather have my stuff work when I’m hunting. I’m actually glad it happened now because it was the motivation I needed to get a Swaro spotter.


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[Billy Goat]

 

[sndmn11]

I’ve never in all my life seen a place like rokslide where a company having a hell of a good warranty is a bad thing……

What company doesn't have a great warranty? (Electronics in optics aside)

When it is at the top of the list for why a company tells you to buy their product is when it becomes suspect. Someone sent me an Athlon scope to test, and I found it odd and annoying how prominent and frequently shown the warranty was on the box's exterior, but I had to search for information on reticle subtension.

 

[fwafwow]

Possible new tagline for SWFA "Buy it. For Your Daughter's Sake."

 

[tredell17]

There’s nothing passive about what I write. I try to keep it as clinical and pointed as the situation allows.





No, your stated use doesn’t meet what I would consider criteria for “extensive” use anymore than anyone that hasn’t “tested” what they think is happening. What you’ve described your use as, is not in anyway “extensive”, let alone “hard” use- anymore than driving a Jeep Rubicon around town and down a couple forest service roads is “extensive” use. What people say should be qualified so that others can discern differences between statements. I care about real use, not babied or light use.



This is what I would consider baseline use-

Two seasons for the first, one season for the second. The only abuse they have taken is the drop evals; the rest is just shooting and hunting. Combined they have over 5,000 rounds shot on them (which I would not consider a lot), 30,000+ road miles and several thousand FS miles; hundreds of miles strapped to a pack, have been shot in multiple matches by multiple people- with I believe the worst place finish being 5th; 16 game animals (13 elk) from less than 20 yards to 970 yards, in temps from -26° to over 100°, blowing sand storms and snow storms, and have yet to lose zero or fail in anyway to adjust or RTZ properly. Now, that is not definitive proof that these scopes models/line have a low instance of failure, however it is at least pointing towards a positive direction.


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It’s not a direct correlation that wear on a scope matches the amount of use it has received, however things that are used, show that use- I.E. wear. Can you post pictures of your LHT?


I do not care about one scope passing, the Trijicon Tenmile has done very well, and yet I still do not say that they are good. The first scope failing does say something about it, and multiples of the same types all but guarantees that there is an issue.

I have evaled one LHT here. I have seen and used several more. All exhibited the same behavior. I do not say things based on small sample sizes, light use, or opinion- in all probability I will see more rounds fired through through multiple brands of scopes in the next month or so, than all the people saying I am lying will combined in their lives.

I have not, nor can I state with certainty that your scope doesn’t hold zero- in all probability it doesn’t if actually checked. Again- I will come to you; you can shoot your scope, if it holds zero I will buy you a brand new one. If loses zero, all you have to do is say so.

@Formidilosus why do you tape your Scopes? I think I've seen other photos of your Scopes and they always (could be wrong - going from memory) have tape on them.

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[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus why do you tape your Scopes? I think I've seen other photos of your Scopes and they always (could be wrong - going from memory) have tape on them.

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There are various reasons. Sometimes it take on the parallax that marks it for me. Lots of times it’s writing with revolution numbers of elevation and windage. Sometimes it’s got zero information for multiple ammo types. Etc, etc.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

The offer is usually reserved for people that say it’s bs, generally on multiple forums.

Quite a few people have asked to see it in person, and the ones that have all left understanding that there are in fact differences between scopes.

I mean I could do that.
I do already believe in the differences. I really don't get to shoot near enough, but the setup you turned me on to has made such a difference in repeatability that I feel I can progress.
My other setups really were so frustrating because of the lack of repeatability.

 

[gatekeeper]

@Formidilosus I just want to thank you for these test, glad I found them. Was looking for new optic and was about to buy the LHT tested here. Decided to pass on it after my buddy referred me to this test.
Ok, second choice was the mark5... oops read the test and passed on it as well.
Decided to look harder at my 4.5-14 vx3 I had on my coyote hunting AR since I was having some zero shift issues, that rifle is very accurate, just had wandering zero would go from 1.75" high-left to 1.75 low-right. Honestly thought it was something with the rifle because I trusted my leupolds...
Rezeroed it one day and gave it a soft drop of about 12" and it jumped 1.75 high left.
So long story short, these test have potentially saved me thousands of dollars, all my Leupolds are gone except a long time 2-7 vx2 that lives on my 7600 35whelen that has never shifted.
I now have a 2.5-15 credo on that ar and my zero shift woes are gone.
I bought a 4-24 Tenmile on clearance for @ $850 instead of the lht or mk5. It seems to be holding up great as well.
Thanks again.

 

[roosiebull]

@Formidilosus I just want to thank you for these test, glad I found them. Was looking for new optic and was about to buy the LHT tested here. Decided to pass on it after my buddy referred me to this test.
Ok, second choice was the mark5... oops read the test and passed on it as well.
Decided to look harder at my 4.5-14 vx3 I had on my coyote hunting AR since I was having some zero shift issues, that rifle is very accurate, just had wandering zero would go from 1.75" high-left to 1.75 low-right. Honestly thought it was something with the rifle because I trusted my leupolds...
Rezeroed it one day and gave it a soft drop of about 12" and it jumped 1.75 high left.
So long story short, these test have potentially saved me thousands of dollars, all my Leupolds are gone except a long time 2-7 vx2 that lives on my 7600 35whelen that has never shifted.
I now have a 2.5-15 credo on that ar and my zero shift woes are gone.
I bought a 4-24 Tenmile on clearance for @ $850 instead of the lht or mk5. It seems to be holding up great as well.
Thanks again.

I also appreciate the tests, started out with the LHT that I planned on buying, and instead have bought a swfa 3-9x and a 2.5-10nxs… the rifle with the swfa has been hunted a good amount, dropped once pretty hard, tipped over on the bipod a few times, and lots of bumpy pickup rides and have not had to touch it

My rifle with the NXS has not been hunted much yet, but will, so too early to have an opinion on its durability, but I assume it will be a lot more problem free than all of my leupolds over the years that always wandered a little bit at best… often times between shooting sessions when nothing notable happened.

I really didn’t know there were options that would mostly be maintenance free in terms of zero retention, I just figured that’s how scopes were… my last leupold was the worst. I don’t even want it on my 17 anymore, but I can’t sell it In good faith either. Maybe I’ll give it to someone on April first, and have the longest lasting April fools joke ever