Vivo forest tracker esc durability

[twall13]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to at least give it a shot, found some used Magna FG on Ebay for cheap. Probably won't take them on spring bear this year, but they'll get used for most everything else between now and fall.

Couple more questions after a lion hunt this weekend that prompted some thoughts.

• Sounds like it has been addressed above, but what crampons work well with these boots? Any full manual crampon, and with or without a solid connecting bar? Or only the lighter duty spikes?
• Without crampons, how are the Vivos on extremely steep/frozen terrain? With stiff boots I've always relied on kicking an edge/toe in on steep/frozen slopes. Not sure how that will work with the Vivos yet.
• How does the additional foot/ankle mobility affect knees? I've been trying to pay more attention to this with the stiff boots, and it seems like some minor knee issues I've felt might be exacerbated by the stiffer boots and reduced with the mobility of the barefoot boots.

The KG Boot Guard is good stuff, I have some on a pair of Lowa Tibets that has survived 4 seasons of lion/spring bear hunting and looks brand new. I prepped pretty aggressively for it with 40 grit sandpaper and acetone, none of it is peeling at all yet. I'll probably try that or the 5200 on this pair of Magna when they show up.

I've never used crampons with Vivo's as I don't think it would work well. Microspikes are fine for the most part but you do feel them underfoot on really icy stuff and they can put a little pressure on your toes from the rubber on top. It hasn't been a problem for me but it's work pointing out.

For me, moving to barefoot shoes really helped my knees. That is speaking across the board beginning with running shoes but also boots.

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[Braaap]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to at least give it a shot, found some used Magna FG on Ebay for cheap. Probably won't take them on spring bear this year, but they'll get used for most everything else between now and fall.

Couple more questions after a lion hunt this weekend that prompted some thoughts.

• Sounds like it has been addressed above, but what crampons work well with these boots? Any full manual crampon, and with or without a solid connecting bar? Or only the lighter duty spikes?
• Without crampons, how are the Vivos on extremely steep/frozen terrain? With stiff boots I've always relied on kicking an edge/toe in on steep/frozen slopes. Not sure how that will work with the Vivos yet.
• How does the additional foot/ankle mobility affect knees? I've been trying to pay more attention to this with the stiff boots, and it seems like some minor knee issues I've felt might be exacerbated by the stiffer boots and reduced with the mobility of the barefoot boots.

The KG Boot Guard is good stuff, I have some on a pair of Lowa Tibets that has survived 4 seasons of lion/spring bear hunting and looks brand new. I prepped pretty aggressively for it with 40 grit sandpaper and acetone, none of it is peeling at all yet. I'll probably try that or the 5200 on this pair of Magna when they show up.

I don’t have any info on crampons. I can comment on your question about steep ground and knees. On steep ground they work just fine but it’s different than stiff boots. The added ankle mobility lets the boot sole match the slope angle, but you need to have good mobility and if you don’t ease into this as it does place more stress on your Achilles. As for the knees I find them to be easier on the knees. Stiff boots just transfer necessary movement up to the nearest joint that moves. Soft boots split it between foot/anke/knee/hip. Just my personal experience.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Without crampons, how are the Vivos on extremely steep/frozen terrain? With stiff boots I've always relied on kicking an edge/toe in on steep/frozen slopes. Not sure how that will work with the Vivos yet.

On steep frozen terrain, they are awful for exactly the reason you mentioned how you use traditional boots to kick & edge into the terrain. You have to completely change how you approach terrain, and when there is no choice but to sidehill on steep frozen ground, you will struggle. If you try to match the slope angle with the boot sole on that type of terrain, especially with weight on your back, you will get no purchase and they will slide right out. Imagine trying to traverse a hard slope on skis, keeping the base flat with the slope. There is a very good reason alpine climbers and mountaineers don't use barefoot boots. They certainly have their place in hunting, but they don't work for every situation.

 

[Lawnboi]

On steep frozen terrain, they are awful for exactly the reason you mentioned how you use traditional boots to kick & edge into the terrain. You have to completely change how you approach terrain, and when there is no choice but to sidehill on steep frozen ground, you will struggle. If you try to match the slope angle with the boot sole on that type of terrain, especially with weight on your back, you will get no purchase and they will slide right out. Imagine trying to traverse a hard slope on skis, keeping the base flat with the slope. There is a very good reason alpine climbers and mountaineers don't use barefoot boots. They certainly have their place in hunting, but they don't work for every situation.

Exactly this. Forced into a steep side hill this year the downside of barefoot boots really showed. And that was with Jim greens that I could slightly kick in with.

I don’t know the solution, but at the time I was using a trekking pole to keep my foot from sliding in places.

 

[Seeknelk]

Anyone have the inside liner blow out at the heels? Mine did after a couple season of use. Ive continued to use them last couple seasons but they chew up socks now too.
The uppers and soles are still in excellent condition( I sealed the stitching) but they are done cuz the inside has huge holes in the heels. So kinduva a piss off but they'll work for work and kicking around I guess. But what caused it? I'm considering ordering more but hesitate because of it.

 

[PathFinder]

Exactly this. Forced into a steep side hill this year the downside of barefoot boots really showed. And that was with Jim greens that I could slightly kick in with.

I don’t know the solution, but at the time I was using a trekking pole to keep my foot from sliding in places.

This is one of two scenarios I'm really apprehensive about. Thinking back, there are a few sketchy slopes from the last several years that would be a real problem in these:

1. A frozen slope just below tree line in Colorado. There was little to no snow in mid October, but the frost on the slope alone was bad enough. It was an extremely steep, north facing slope that wasn't thawing out during the day. Even with stiff mountaineering boots, it was nearly impossible to kick in and was the kind of slope that could result in a pretty serious fall. Really should have been using crampons even with mountaineering boots.
2. Steep, frozen sidehills during lion season, especially north facing ones. This was the scenario that prompted my first crampon purchase. Holding onto a handful of hounds doesn't make it easier.
3. The same scenario above during spring bear season. Slopes where the snow melts off, then they freeze again are a bad time.
4. Steep, packed snow slopes in the spring. They can be really hard to kick into even with stiff boots.

Hopefully some kind of lightweight crampon or spikes will be a good solution. I'd rather not have to go back and forth for different trips if the barefoot boots work out well for everything else.

 

[Lawnboi]

This is one of two scenarios I'm really apprehensive about. Thinking back, there are a few sketchy slopes from the last several years that would be a real problem in these:

1. A frozen slope just below tree line in Colorado. There was little to no snow in mid October, but the frost on the slope alone was bad enough. It was an extremely steep, north facing slope that wasn't thawing out during the day. Even with stiff mountaineering boots, it was nearly impossible to kick in and was the kind of slope that could result in a pretty serious fall. Really should have been using crampons even with mountaineering boots.
2. Steep, frozen sidehills during lion season, especially north facing ones. This was the scenario that prompted my first crampon purchase. Holding onto a handful of hounds doesn't make it easier.
3. The same scenario above during spring bear season. Slopes where the snow melts off, then they freeze again are a bad time.
4. Steep, packed snow slopes in the spring. They can be really hard to kick into even with stiff boots.

Hopefully some kind of lightweight crampon or spikes will be a good solution. I'd rather not have to go back and forth for different trips if the barefoot boots work out well for everything else.

So I did quite a bit of what you’re describing.

1. Micro spikes would likely suffice and make it more comfortable.

2. This is where I had issues. Mid winter powder snow over grass. Once there’s enough snow it’s not a huge deal to kick in. When it’s just a foot or so over matted down grass and it’s like powder, it was slick.

3 and 4. I had zero issues with packed snow and kicking in with JG troopers/new soles. Could see it as an issue with vivos.