Velocity Question

[wmdurway]

Good morning all,

I’m new to muzzleloader hunting and have a (hopefully) quick question on velocity.

I am shooting a Traditions muzzleloader using 250gr Barnes TEZ over 100 grs. (Volume) of Triple 7 powder. I marked my ramrod at 2.5” to maintain a consistent loading.

Everything I’m reading shows I should be in the 1800-2000 fps range. But when I chronographed it, I’m around 1560.

It’s very accurate and the velocities are relatively consistent. But it’s very slow.

Any ideas? Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you,
Will

 

[Q_Sertorius]

How long is your barrel compared with the test barrel?

Edit - Google searching suggests to me that your estimated velocities are rather high.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[wmdurway]

Thanks for the info. It’s 26 inches to the breach plug.

Should I keep bumping up the charge weight to 110 and 120 grains to see what speeds I get?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Should I keep bumping up the charge weight to 110 and 120 grains to see what speeds I get?

I am not going to advise what you should do. I know some people who shoot some large charges of 777, but the inline my mentor gave me last year shoots well to 100 yards with 100-grains of 777 and a saboted Barnes bullet.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

 

[ElDiablito]

You should be closer to 1950 fps assuming it’s a .50 and you’re shootinv 2F 777. When you say you marked your ramrod at 2.5” - what are you saying? They you marked it at loaded?

You’re seating the bullet/sabot firmly on the powder? And what cap/primer are you using?

Is your chrono messed up?

 

[mighteywhitehunter]

With the TEZ you are potentially not getting a great seal depending on actual bore diameter.

If it is really "E Z" to push the sabot down you may want to try the TMZ to see if that increases your velocity due to a better bore to Sabot seal or look into some after market Harvester Sabots and just change the sabot to get a better seal.

Other option is to move to BH 209. I currently shoot the Barnes 250 TMZ at about 2200fps with a medium charge.

 

[wmdurway]

Thanks for the info everyone. I’ll try to answer all of the questions, but apologies if I missed any.

I’m using Winchester 209 primers.

For the ramrod, it’s measured 2.5” from the end to help with consistent loading. So when the sabot is seated against the powder charge, 2.5” of ramrod is sticking out of the barrel. The rationale being I get the same compaction with each load.

The sabot seems to be decently tight when seating. The first few shots after a clean barrel are easier. The dirtier it is, the tighter it becomes.

I clean after ever range session. The last time I was at the range I shot 9 rounds before cleaning.

Accuracy was great (picture below). First four shots are grouped to the right. I adjusted and the last 5 are center with iron sights at 100.

For the chrono, I’m using a Garmin Xero. It’s been very consistent with my rifle hand loads for the last few years.

 

[OXN939]

Thanks for the info everyone. I’ll try to answer all of the questions, but apologies if I missed any.

I’m using Winchester 209 primers.

For the ramrod, it’s measured 2.5” from the end to help with consistent loading. So when the sabot is seated against the powder charge, 2.5” of ramrod is sticking out of the barrel. The rationale being I get the same compaction with each load.

The sabot seems to be decently tight when seating. The first few shots after a clean barrel are easier. The dirtier it is, the tighter it becomes.

I clean after ever range session. The last time I was at the range I shot 9 rounds before cleaning.

Accuracy was great (picture below). First four shots are grouped to the right. I adjusted and the last 5 are center with iron sights at 100.

For the chrono, I’m using a Garmin Xero. It’s been very consistent with my rifle hand loads for the last few years.

Definitely something weird going on there- I get more like 1750 with a similar charge of T7 in a bunch of different muzzleloaders. First thing I'd try is a different chrono.

Good news is, anything north of about 1100 is plenty for whitetail from the perspective of terminal ballistics. T-EZs really the GOAT of muzzleloader projectiles

 

[ElDiablito]

Very strange. I guess I wouldn’t worry if you’re happy with those groups. Down the road you might try some MMP or Harvester sabots as Mighty suggests. Rarely do those Barnes supplied sabots produce the best groups.

Are you getting a lot of blowby - do the primers look really dirty?

 

[wmdurway]

I will go again before the season starts and check the chrono. Maybe I had it setup incorrectly.

How do you clean the communication hole in the breach plug? I can always see light through it, but could it be clogged with carbon build up?

I will take a few pictures of the breach plug next time I shoot. I’m new to muzzleloading so it’s difficult to say if I’m getting a lot of blow back. Removing the primer after shooting produces a lot of soot on my fingers but I assume that’s normal?

 

[wmdurway]

Definitely something weird going on there- I get more like 1750 with a similar charge of T7 in a bunch of different muzzleloaders. First thing I'd try is a different chrono.

Good news is, anything north of about 1100 is plenty for whitetail from the perspective of terminal ballistics. T-EZs really the GOAT of muzzleloader projectiles

Same for mule deer? I reached out to Barnes for minimum velocities on the TEZ. Waiting to hear back.

 

[mtnbound]

Good morning all,

I’m new to muzzleloader hunting and have a (hopefully) quick question on velocity.

I am shooting a Traditions muzzleloader using 250gr Barnes TEZ over 100 grs. (Volume) of Triple 7 powder. I marked my ramrod at 2.5” to maintain a consistent loading.

Everything I’m reading shows I should be in the 1800-2000 fps range. But when I chronographed it, I’m around 1560.

It’s very accurate and the velocities are relatively consistent. But it’s very slow.

Any ideas? Am I doing something wrong?

Thank you,
Will

How old is your powder? Try a new lot at the same volume and see what you get.

 

[ElDiablito]

How do you clean the communication hole in the breach plug? I can always see light through it, but could it be clogged with carbon build up?

The “communication hole” - I like it!

You’ll want to make sure the flame channel is clean by using a drill bit.



And, Yes, 777 loses its mojo pretty quickly once you open it. But, I assume since you’re new to it, it’s a new bottle?

 

[OXN939]

Same for mule deer?

Thor 250 (which is a Barnes T-EZ with a gas skirt instead of a plastic sabot) doing 1650 MV. 0 foot tracking job.

 

[wmdurway]

The “communication hole” - I like it!

You’ll want to make sure the flame channel is clean by using a drill bit.

View attachment 915962

And, Yes, 777 loses its mojo pretty quickly once you open it. But, I assume since you’re new to it, it’s a new bottle?

Ha flame channel! Shoot I knew that sounded funny smh.

That’s a great cut view. I have a few bits sets and can find the right size to hand turn the carbon out of it. Thank you for sending!

 

[wmdurway]

Now that yo

How old is your powder? Try a new lot at the same volume and see what you get.

Now that you mention it, the powder is from last year. I have an unopened Triple 7 I can break into to compare side by side.

 

[wmdurway]

That’s a

Thor 250 (which is a Barnes T-EZ with a gas skirt instead of a plastic sabot) doing 1650 MV. 0 foot tracking job.

View attachment 916010

That’s a hell of a buck! The velvet looks good!

 

[Jebel]

The Garmin Xero has different velocity ranges depending on the weapon you’re using. Make sure you’re using the appropriate setting.