Velociradar vs. Labradar LX vs. Garmin Xero

[atmat]

I have had my LR since 2017. It was always pretty inconsistent until I got the external trigger, which helped quite a bit, but still didn't make it completely reliable. I'm surprised to hear that some units seem to be much more consistent at capturing shots than others. I'm not going to replace my LR right away, but I'm very interested to see how the new units do over the next little while.

Just buy a Garmin and be done with it haha. It’s so easy it’s ridiculous. You invest approximately 0.1 seconds of thought into getting it right.

 

[Gila]

Looks like Garmin is considered a “Game Changer”. But they have won nothing…if anything Garmin has opened the market to competition, which is a good thing. What shooters seem to like about the Garmin is the small size, ease of setup, and portability more than the functional features. Most seem to like the way the Garmin works. I won’t buy the Garmin for three reasons: 1) buttons in the worg place, 2) black and white screen, 3) no forward looking RADAR. I am not going to spend $600 on a Chronograph that doesn’t have all of the bells and whistles.

The Labradar LX seems to have all of the features that the Garmin has but it does have forward looking RADAR capability. The case is slightly larger, not by much, which functions as an antenna for better receiver gain. The unit can look forward out to about 30 yards (I heard) which is good enough to calculate and display the Power Factor. Competitive shooters (like IPSC) will like this feature. The ergonomics (including the screen) seem to be an improvement over the Garmin. The projected price is the same as the Garmin chrono and the standard Labradar.

The Caldwell Velociradar seems to have the ergonomics that I like plus it has a color screen. The case (antenna) isn’t as large as the Labradar standard v1 unit, but not as small as the Labradar LX. The Velociradar does look forward and takes multiple samples out to about 100 yards. This is enough to accurately calculate the BC which is displayed. The Tripod has a ball head and appears to be very stable. The unit has an internal rechargeable Lithium - Ion battery. The projected price is less than the Garmin or the Labradar (LX and Standard).

The Labradar LX can be pre-ordered on their website for a delivery of March - April when it will be shipped to their dealers. The Caldwell Velociradar will be shipped to retailers April - May.

 

[Dmoua]

Looks like Garmin is considered a “Game Changer”. But they have won nothing…if anything Garmin has opened the market to competition, which is a good thing. What shooters seem to like about the Garmin is the small size, ease of setup, and portability more than the functional features. Most seem to like the way the Garmin works. I won’t buy the Garmin for three reasons: 1) buttons in the worg place, 2) black and white screen, 3) no forward looking RADAR. I am not going to spend $600 on a Chronograph that doesn’t have all of the bells and whistles.

The Labradar LX seems to have all of the features that the Garmin has but it does have forward looking RADAR capability. The case is slightly larger, not by much, which functions as an antenna for better receiver gain. The unit can look forward out to about 30 yards (I heard) which is good enough to calculate and display the Power Factor. Competitive shooters (like IPSC) will like this feature. The ergonomics (including the screen) seem to be an improvement over the Garmin. The projected price is the same as the Garmin chrono and the standard Labradar.

The Caldwell Velociradar seems to have the ergonomics that I like plus it has a color screen. The case (antenna) isn’t as large as the Labradar standard v1 unit, but not as small as the Labradar LX. The Velociradar does look forward and takes multiple samples out to about 100 yards. This is enough to accurately calculate the BC which is displayed. The Tripod has a ball head and appears to be very stable. The unit has an internal rechargeable Lithium - Ion battery. The projected price is less than the Garmin or the Labradar (LX and Standard).

The Labradar LX can be pre-ordered on their website for a delivery of March - April when it will be shipped to their dealers. The Caldwell Velociradar will be shipped to retailers April - May.

You do you and post your findings. I have yet to run into anyone with a Garmin that had any complaints about it. You seem to have your mind set on what you want so I’m not sure what the point of this thread is. Garmin has won all of Labradars customers besides you.

 

[atmat]

Looks like Garmin is considered a “Game Changer”. But they have won nothing…if anything Garmin has opened the market to competition, which is a good thing. What shooters seem to like about the Garmin is the small size, ease of setup, and portability more than the functional features. Most seem to like the way the Garmin works. I won’t buy the Garmin for three reasons: 1) buttons in the worg place, 2) black and white screen, 3) no forward looking RADAR. I am not going to spend $600 on a Chronograph that doesn’t have all of the bells and whistles.

The Labradar LX seems to have all of the features that the Garmin has but it does have forward looking RADAR capability. The case is slightly larger, not by much, which functions as an antenna for better receiver gain. The unit can look forward out to about 30 yards (I heard) which is good enough to calculate and display the Power Factor. Competitive shooters (like IPSC) will like this feature. The ergonomics (including the screen) seem to be an improvement over the Garmin. The projected price is the same as the Garmin chrono and the standard Labradar.

The Caldwell Velociradar seems to have the ergonomics that I like plus it has a color screen. The case (antenna) isn’t as large as the Labradar standard v1 unit, but not as small as the Labradar LX. The Velociradar does look forward and takes multiple samples out to about 100 yards. This is enough to accurately calculate the BC which is displayed. The Tripod has a ball head and appears to be very stable. The unit has an internal rechargeable Lithium - Ion battery. The projected price is less than the Garmin or the Labradar (LX and Standard).

The Labradar LX can be pre-ordered on their website for a delivery of March - April when it will be shipped to their dealers. The Caldwell Velociradar will be shipped to retailers April - May.

You do you, amigo. I hope those products work. But it doesn’t seem like any one else is holding their breath given past experiences with those companies.

 

[ljalberta]

Looks like Garmin is considered a “Game Changer”. But they have won nothing…if anything Garmin has opened the market to competition, which is a good thing. What shooters seem to like about the Garmin is the small size, ease of setup, and portability more than the functional features. Most seem to like the way the Garmin works. I won’t buy the Garmin for three reasons: 1) buttons in the worg place, 2) black and white screen, 3) no forward looking RADAR. I am not going to spend $600 on a Chronograph that doesn’t have all of the bells and whistles.

The Labradar LX seems to have all of the features that the Garmin has but it does have forward looking RADAR capability. The case is slightly larger, not by much, which functions as an antenna for better receiver gain. The unit can look forward out to about 30 yards (I heard) which is good enough to calculate and display the Power Factor. Competitive shooters (like IPSC) will like this feature. The ergonomics (including the screen) seem to be an improvement over the Garmin. The projected price is the same as the Garmin chrono and the standard Labradar.

The Caldwell Velociradar seems to have the ergonomics that I like plus it has a color screen. The case (antenna) isn’t as large as the Labradar standard v1 unit, but not as small as the Labradar LX. The Velociradar does look forward and takes multiple samples out to about 100 yards. This is enough to accurately calculate the BC which is displayed. The Tripod has a ball head and appears to be very stable. The unit has an internal rechargeable Lithium - Ion battery. The projected price is less than the Garmin or the Labradar (LX and Standard).

The Labradar LX can be pre-ordered on their website for a delivery of March - April when it will be shipped to their dealers. The Caldwell Velociradar will be shipped to retailers April - May.

I’m not sure what you’re talking about in terms of the LX looking forward and calculating power factor where the Garmin does not?

The Garmin also looks forward about 20 yards and then spits out the Power Factor in front of your face if you so please.

Button placement some may like or not like. In my opinion, Garmin got it right with the button placement being on top. If you’re using a light tripod or stand, such as the included one, you can press the buttons with one hand. If the button was on the face, you’d need both hands so you don’t just push unit back.

Highly visible b/w screen seems like a win. I’m not sure the need for color on a chrono at the cost of hurting battery life or requiring a bigger battery and in turn housing unit. Another preference I suppose.

But I am glad you aren’t getting a Garmin.

 

[Gila]

You do you and post your findings. I have yet to run into anyone with a Garmin that had any complaints about it. You seem to have your mind set on what you want so I’m not sure what the point of this thread is. Garmin has won all of Labradars customers besides you.

Obviously the reason of this thread was to help identify the features, pros and cons of each without being able to make a side by side comparison of all three. I am not the only one that wanted to see what would shake out of the Shotshow. I did not see all of this “hate” about the Labradar until Labradar announced the LX model at the shotshow. The fact is, it is only a handful of individuals who post the same thing on the other shooting forums as well. Truth be told, I have been using Garmin hand held devices since the start of the company. Some of those devices were very expensive and died soon after the warranty expired. But I do see the same “clunky” UI, the buttons in the wrong place in relationship to the screen, and the usual “cheap” black and white screen that may be harder to see on the Garmin chrono.

I don’t really “need” another chrono at this point. My CE DLX chrono works very well and I am perfectly happy with the phone app and being able to export the data for load work up. However, I would like to have a chrono that calculates BC. All too often the BC on the bullet box is different than the database and may differ in the bullet libraries for different ballistic apps as well. Quite a few long range competitive shooters don’t seem to give a rat’s patootie about muzzle velocity or BC. They just take dope and true up the solvers at range. But as a hunter who takes the majority of shots between 200-600 yards and doesn’t use frag bullets; I do care about BC and sectional density.

 

[Gila]

The Garmin also looks forward about 20 yards and then spits out the Power Factor in front of your face if you so please.

I didn’t know that.…good to know though. I wouldn’t use that feature anyway. So, I have crossed off the Garmin and the Labradar LX. That leaves the Velociradar and the Labradar V1 as my current purchase possibilities.

 

[Dmoua]

Obviously the reason of this thread was to help identify the features, pros and cons of each without being able to make a side by side comparison of all three. I am not the only one that wanted to see what would shake out of the Shotshow. I did not see all of this “hate” about the Labradar until Labradar announced the LX model at the shotshow. The fact is, it is only a handful of individuals who post the same thing on the other shooting forums as well. Truth be told, I have been using Garmin hand held devices since the start of the company. Some of those devices were very expensive and died soon after the warranty expired. But I do see the same “clunky” UI, the buttons in the wrong place in relationship to the screen, and the usual “cheap” black and white screen that may be harder to see on the Garmin chrono.

I don’t really “need” another chrono at this point. My CE DLX chrono works very well and I am perfectly happy with the phone app and being able to export the data for load work up. However, I would like to have a chrono that calculates BC. All too often the BC on the bullet box is different than the database and may differ in the bullet libraries for different ballistic apps as well. Quite a few long range competitive shooters don’t seem to give a rat’s patootie about muzzle velocity or BC. They just take dope and true up the solvers at range. But as a hunter who takes the majority of shots between 200-600 yards and doesn’t use frag bullets; I do care about BC and sectional density.

Most competitors are hunters. You’re over complicating it but that’s fine.

 

[atmat]

But as a hunter who takes the majority of shots between 200-600 yards and doesn’t use frag bullets; I do care about BC and sectional density.

I do too. I true up and don’t give a whip about a chrono getting my down range velocity. It’s literally useless.

 

[Gila]

I do too. I true up and don’t give a whip about a chrono getting my down range velocity. It’s literally useless.

The way I see it, if I can true up the solvers with less shots, the chrono will eventually pay off. And i think the ballistic tables will be closer if I have an accurate BC before taking dope. I don’t like pulling bullets to change a powder charge either.

 

[atmat]

The way I see it, if I can true up the solvers with less shots, the chrono will eventually pay off. And i think the ballistic tables will be closer if I have an accurate BC before taking dope. I don’t like pulling bullets to change a powder charge either.

It’s not going to let you true up with any less shots. You’re trueing up the system.

Ballistic solvers have accurate enough coefficients to get you very close at distance. Yours will not be any more accurate to save any rounds.

 

[Mulyhuntr]

The way I see it, if I can true up the solvers with less shots, the chrono will eventually pay off. And i think the ballistic tables will be closer if I have an accurate BC before taking dope. I don’t like pulling bullets to change a powder charge either.

You can true up your data with 30 yards of data? Not sure what 30 yards gives me that muzzle doesn't.

 

[Gila]

You can true up your data with 30 yards of data? Not sure what 30 yards gives me that muzzle doesn't.

I think they take about 5 samples out to 100 yards to calculate BC. Taking a couple of samples out to 30 yards is enough to calculate the PF evidently.

 

[Grundy53]

Looks like Garmin is considered a “Game Changer”. But they have won nothing…if anything Garmin has opened the market to competition, which is a good thing. What shooters seem to like about the Garmin is the small size, ease of setup, and portability more than the functional features. Most seem to like the way the Garmin works. I won’t buy the Garmin for three reasons: 1) buttons in the worg place, 2) black and white screen, 3) no forward looking RADAR. I am not going to spend $600 on a Chronograph that doesn’t have all of the bells and whistles.

The Labradar LX seems to have all of the features that the Garmin has but it does have forward looking RADAR capability. The case is slightly larger, not by much, which functions as an antenna for better receiver gain. The unit can look forward out to about 30 yards (I heard) which is good enough to calculate and display the Power Factor. Competitive shooters (like IPSC) will like this feature. The ergonomics (including the screen) seem to be an improvement over the Garmin. The projected price is the same as the Garmin chrono and the standard Labradar.

The Caldwell Velociradar seems to have the ergonomics that I like plus it has a color screen. The case (antenna) isn’t as large as the Labradar standard v1 unit, but not as small as the Labradar LX. The Velociradar does look forward and takes multiple samples out to about 100 yards. This is enough to accurately calculate the BC which is displayed. The Tripod has a ball head and appears to be very stable. The unit has an internal rechargeable Lithium - Ion battery. The projected price is less than the Garmin or the Labradar (LX and Standard).

The Labradar LX can be pre-ordered on their website for a delivery of March - April when it will be shipped to their dealers. The Caldwell Velociradar will be shipped to retailers April - May.

I don't get how the buttons are in the wrong place. If the unit is sitting in front of you the buttons are literally in the easiest spot to use them. Also, it displays power factor for every shot.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[ndlawrence]

I suspect that the reason for the larger cases of the LabRadar V1 and the Velociradar is to sense radar signals down range. The cases are actually larger antennas to increase receiver sensitivity gain. Velociradar uses CHIRP (pulse compression) radar while the Labradar uses Doppler radar.

I don’t know if a firmware update would be able to increase receiver gain enough to get down range velocity without a larger antenna (case). The Labradar LX case is made out of aluminum for better signal gain. But the Labradar LX can only look down range about 20 feet or so. Not far enough to get an accurate BC.

Any of these units will be getting velocity from the Doppler effect on the signal and using frequency modulated pulse compression. Don’t buy into any of their marketing crap telling you otherwise.

 

[atmat]

I think they take about 5 samples out to 100 yards to calculate BC. Taking a couple of samples out to 30 yards is enough to calculate the PF evidently.

It doesn’t matter how it calculates your BC. It will be no more accurate than various calculators use, and you still have to true your system.

 

[Gila]

Any of these units will be getting velocity from the Doppler effect on the signal and using frequency modulated pulse compression. Don’t buy into any of their marketing crap telling you otherwise.

Enjoy….from MIT

“A Comparison of Chirp Diversity and Pulse Doppler Radar
by
Dirk Matthew Bernmold
Submitted to the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
on May 6, 1994 in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of Bachelor of
Science and Master of Science.

Abstract
A comparison of Chirp Diversity and Pulse Doppler Radar was carried out in both a theoretical and computer simulated manner. The Pulse Doppler technique used was as described in any radar textbook, while the Chirp Diversity method was a relatively new process employing tomographic techniques. The comparison consisted of characterizing each of the techniques' responses to point targets. Relatively low bandwidth chirp pulses were used in the Matlab simulation in order to lessen computational tasks. Characteristics compared included the size of the unambiguous region, the point spread function, resolution, signal to noise gain through processing, and peak to sidelobe height ratios.

The Chirp Diversity technique demonstrated a larger unambiguous region, as it could be increased in either dimension without compromise to the other. Its range resolution was approximately 33% better than that of Pulse Doppler Radar. However, Pulse Doppler Radar was shown to have superior range-rate resolution, as its coherent integration time was much longer than that of Chirp Diversity Radar which was non-coherent. The non- coherence also resulted in a lower signal to noise gain than for the Pulse Doppler method.”

https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/37723/31280347-MIT.pdf?sequence=2

 

[Jmort1754]

Jesus you guys have stock in these ?

 

[gpo1956]

I frequently see people talk about LR missing shots. I’ve put thousands of rounds past mine over that last 5 years, and doubt I’ve had 5 fail to capture aside from forgetting to turn it on. I use the internal trigger for shorter barrels, and generally an external for longer barrels so I don’t have to put it on a full size tripod instead of on the bench. I like that the Garmin is small, but I’m going with “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I admire your ability to consistently make the Labradar work flawlessly. I too had mine for 5 years and I would almost guarantee that close to between 15 and 20 percent were dropped, missed or just dead wrong. I have not had one missed or extremely high or low reading with the Garmin. Nor have I had any hiccup with the app or losing connection.

 

[Fujicon]

I'll admit to some surprise at all the Garmin fanboy talk on this thread. Most of my experience has been with Garmin's Rino 650 and their batteries have been an utter disaster. So when the Xero came out I was poised to buy it (as a definite improvement on Labradar), but was hesitant to buy another Garmin product after the poor 650 experience, so decided to wait for Shot Show. Glad I did. The fact that the Velociradar uses Chirp is a true upgrade from Doppler and the price is right. Will a Caldwell product prove reliable? Time will tell, but that's the unit I will be buying once available in May.