Upping my cold weather footwear game

[TheCougar]

Montana was a wake up call for me. Ive primarily hunted warmer, dryer climates and I’ve only hunted a couple of times in snow, and never like this year in Montana. We got dumped with a couple feet of snow and temps that were in the negatives at times. I had a combination of equipment and technique problems that kept my feet and particularly my toes aching with cold.

I’d like you guys to tell me how to improve my fundamentals for taking care of my feet in cold weather, and give me some upgrades to avoid this again in the future.

I went into the season with uninsulated Crispi Guides and my normal wool hiking socks and Kuiu gaiters. I also used toe warmers every day, and they did virtually nothing to heat my toes. For the most part, my feet were fine, but my toes ached so bad that it severely distracted me while I was glassing.

I did a fair amount of hiking for 15-20 minutes, then glassing for a few hours. When moving, my feet and toes were fine. Once I stopped, the problems started. In addition, we did a backcountry spike camp and the hike in made my feet sweat and my wool socks got damp, and that was all she wrote. My feet were cold the entire trip as the boots were damp from perspiration on the inside and it never got warm enough to dry them out. It did get warm enough to start melting snow, and combined with foot sweat, meant our boots were frozen solid the next morning.

As far as equipment goes, I can get insulated boots, heavy wool socks, liner socks, vapor barrier liners, down glassing booties, insulated over-boots (arctic shield), etc. I want to be able to glass without being distracted by my feet. What combination do you guys use?

For techniques, how do you manage perspiration in your footwear when it is cold (I don’t have a hot tent)? How do you take care of your boots to prevent them freezing overnight? What techniques do you have for keeping your feet as dry and warm as possible on longer hunts?


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[Bearlodge10]

Footwear in the cold depends a lot on the activity you are doing. If you are walking into a stand and then sitting for long periods of time, I think the best is to have well insulated boots with heavy socks and then have artic shields or other booties to go over the top. When hiking in cold and or wet conditions, I find it best to wear a thin liner sock with a heavier wool sock. For glassing, I have used an extra layer to wrap my feet in and even used a smaller piece of emergency blanket to wrap my lower half of body and feet in. When hunting from home, I run the cheap rubber over shoes and gaiters to keep the moisture out. This does add to my feet sweating but also keeps the warmth in. When back country hunting, I have at least one extra pair of socks and rotate them through while drying the others out in the sleeping bag overnight and/or having them close to my body during the day. Adds stink to the clothes/bag but feet are more comfortable.
As for the boots at night. I have had decent luck in carrying newspaper or paper towels with me. At night I pull the insoles out and place them upright in the boot, then loosely stuff with newspaper. To further this, I place them in an area of the tent that gets more air or the bottom of my sleeping bag. I run the sierra designs backcountry bed so it has a flap that allows you to put your feet out if need be so that is where my boots go. When it is super cold, they are cold and when super wet, they will be damp but never frozen.
For other options and techniques, look up Randy Newberg's video on the subject.

 

[Marbles]

More so a list of ideas to play with than directions on a solution. I'm still playing to find my preferred solution.

Personally, I have not had any luck with drying socks in my sleeping bag, even when I wrap them around a Nalgene filed with boiling water. I find all this really does is add moisture to my sleep system. A lot of this is that I use wool socks, and wool holds a lot of moisture (if I remember correctly it can absorb 30% of its weight before feeling damp).

A VBL can be cheap to try, just get two bread bags. A thin liner sock between your skin and the VBL can help with comfort. However, VBLs are best in really cold weather, if melting snow soaks your boots from the outside the VBL is worthless.

I like my Oboz Bridger 9 boots, not too heavily insulated, but some insulation. Insoles with reflective material help. Boots should be sized so they don't compress your feet at all, adding socks (if your boots are not sized for it) can make your feet colder and increase risk of frost bite due to compression and decreased circulation.

Core insulation and insulation on your legs will also play a role in keeping your feet warm. A down parka that you put on when you glass and take off to move can help a lot, same with puffy pants. My wife has a down skirt that works well, but I cannot bring myself to try that.

For really cold conditions, 40 Below makes nice overboots.

For slushy conditions, I just deal with shoving my feet into frozen socks and boots and rely on moving to get things warm. If you have time and camp booties, you can always drop a bottle of boiling water in your boots during breakfast to warm them up.

Synthetic mountaineering boots with an integrated gaiter are an option, but not cheap. Double boots are nice from a warmth and multiple night perspective, but add bulk and weight. Personally, La Sportiva fit my feet, but Scarpa works better for some peoples feet (and I have not met the person who says both brands work well for them yet). Lowa's mountaineering boots are heavy compared to La Sportiva and Scarpa.

I have never tried antiperspirants on my feet, but could be worth giving a shot. Especially for conditions in the teens and twenties that are too warm for a VBL.

 

[Trogon]

Surviving in truly cold conditions is an art form. You'll have to try different things to see what works for you. The mountaineering world has probably the most information to offer on this. Couple things to consider:

• Drying your wet/damp clothes in your sleeping bag at night. Drape your wet socks across your body to dry. Yes its disgusting. Throw a hot nalgene in the bottom of your bag. To kick start the night.
• If you do this, your bag will get damp. If its truly well below freezing you can tie your bag to a tree during the day to dry in the wind/sun
• Tough to dry wet boots in these conditions. This is where double boots come in. The liner goes in your bag at night, shell stays out.
• Energy. Calories are warmth. Try butter. Make tea/coffee/coco and add a Tbsp of butter to your mug. You will feel your toes start to warm in seconds.
• The rest is just your ability to withstand suffering.

 

[TheCougar]

Footwear in the cold depends a lot on the activity you are doing. If you are walking into a stand and then sitting for long periods of time, I think the best is to have well insulated boots with heavy socks and then have artic shields or other booties to go over the top. When hiking in cold and or wet conditions, I find it best to wear a thin liner sock with a heavier wool sock. For glassing, I have used an extra layer to wrap my feet in and even used a smaller piece of emergency blanket to wrap my lower half of body and feet in. When hunting from home, I run the cheap rubber over shoes and gaiters to keep the moisture out. This does add to my feet sweating but also keeps the warmth in. When back country hunting, I have at least one extra pair of socks and rotate them through while drying the others out in the sleeping bag overnight and/or having them close to my body during the day. Adds stink to the clothes/bag but feet are more comfortable.
As for the boots at night. I have had decent luck in carrying newspaper or paper towels with me. At night I pull the insoles out and place them upright in the boot, then loosely stuff with newspaper. To further this, I place them in an area of the tent that gets more air or the bottom of my sleeping bag. I run the sierra designs backcountry bed so it has a flap that allows you to put your feet out if need be so that is where my boots go. When it is super cold, they are cold and when super wet, they will be damp but never frozen.
For other options and techniques, look up Randy Newberg's video on the subject.

In this case it was hiking a bit, and glassing a lot. Do the Arctic shields really work that well to warm boots that are already cold and covered in snow? I’ve thought about getting down booties, because those would obviously be the warmest option, but you can’t walk around and move glassing positions in them. You can move in the Arctic shields, but I’m skeptical how effective they would be, since the boots they are insulating are already cold and covered in snow.

 

[TheCougar]

More so a list of ideas to play with than directions on a solution. I'm still playing to find my preferred solution.

Personally, I have not had any luck with drying socks in my sleeping bag, even when I wrap them around a Nalgene filed with boiling water. I find all this really does is add moisture to my sleep system. A lot of this is that I use wool socks, and wool holds a lot of moisture (if I remember correctly it can absorb 30% of its weight before feeling damp).

A VBL can be cheap to try, just get two bread bags. A thin liner sock between your skin and the VBL can help with comfort. However, VBLs are best in really cold weather, if melting snow soaks your boots from the outside the VBL is worthless.

I like my Oboz Bridger 9 boots, not too heavily insulated, but some insulation. Insoles with reflective material help. Boots should be sized so they don't compress your feet at all, adding socks (if your boots are not sized for it) can make your feet colder and increase risk of frost bite due to compression and decreased circulation.

Core insulation and insulation on your legs will also play a role in keeping your feet warm. A down parka that you put on when you glass and take off to move can help a lot, same with puffy pants. My wife has a down skirt that works well, but I cannot bring myself to try that.

For really cold conditions, 40 Below makes nice overboots.

For slushy conditions, I just deal with shoving my feet into frozen socks and boots and rely on moving to get things warm. If you have time and camp booties, you can always drop a bottle of boiling water in your boots during breakfast to warm them up.

Synthetic mountaineering boots with an integrated gaiter are an option, but not cheap. Double boots are nice from a warmth and multiple night perspective, but add bulk and weight. Personally, La Sportiva fit my feet, but Scarpa works better for some peoples feet (and I have not met the person who says both brands work well for them yet). Lowa's mountaineering boots are heavy compared to La Sportiva and Scarpa.

I have never tried antiperspirants on my feet, but could be worth giving a shot. Especially for conditions in the teens and twenties that are too warm for a VBL.

I think I’m going to invest in some insulated boots. Maybe 400 or 600gm insulation, since it seemed like the coldness was radiating up from the sole of the boot.

I was swapping socks out and got them dry overnight, but once they went into the boots, which didn’t dry out, they got damp pretty quickly. Taking the insoles out seems like a pretty good idea to help drying.

 

[Bearlodge10]

In this case it was hiking a bit, and glassing a lot. Do the Arctic shields really work that well to warm boots that are already cold and covered in snow? I’ve thought about getting down booties, because those would obviously be the warmest option, but you can’t walk around and move glassing positions in them. You can move in the Arctic shields, but I’m skeptical how effective they would be, since the boots they are insulating are already cold and covered in snow.

Simple insulation equation. In most situations of cold weather hunting, it is the moisture within the boot paired with the cold outside that chills the foot. This coupled with the warmth of the feet melting some of the snow outside or slushy/wet conditions make things worse. If you have a insulating layer between the boot and the outside, the heat will remain inside. Short answer is that it should make things better and more comfortable. Think of the last time you stuck your hand in snow, got it wet and cold and then put that cold , wet hand in your pocket or your glove. Things dry out and warm up don't they?

 

[Ross]

You may want to look to a hoffman or schnees pack boot for this time of year, heavy but will keep your feet dry and warm the tough part is managing sweat.....I picked up a pair of Hoffman’s this year...and this was my first real good test with them....I have one ankle with a bad history so I wore an ankle brace for added support and packed these traction devices which in this super fine snow was a skating rink without....I met a very good and hardcore mule deer hunter last year he lives in these boots come November and with his corks he never falls and crazy slippery stuff and his feet are always toasty.....another option to explore they worked great for me yesterday on a day that started out at 25 got down to 10 degrees and involved down time after some long elevation climbs......extra socks also go a long ways to warm feet

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Lots of great points already mentioned.

When you stop to glass, open up your gaiters. It will help to keep your lower pants/socks/feet drier. You can also change your socks and let the freshly worn ones air dry.

Arctic Shield covers work but you have to be warm already for them to be effective. If you put them on after you have cold feet/toes, they're not going to do much for you.

 

[Jn78]

Man, It is almost better when it stays below freezing and the outside of your boots never get wet. If getting the outside of the boots wet is unavoidable, it sucks, but I have slept with my boots on my stomach, in a waterproof stuff sack, inside my sleeping bag.

As far as wetness inside your boots, try a potent antiperspirant on your feet. As others have said, sleep with insoles and socks inside sleeping bag, but be careful because you don't want much wet stuff inside a down sleeping bag. I try to air dry as much as possible before putting stuff inside my sleeping bag.

I have a hard time with disposable toe warmers, but the disposable insole warmers that cover the entire bottom of my foot work pretty well. Also, you can change out the insole in your boots and get an insulated winter insole.

Insulated boots are great, but your problem sounds moisture-related as much as anything. With that said, I don't think 400 or 600 grams provides that much insulation.

If you crank down on the boot lace that puts pressure on the top of your foot, you can cut off blood flow and that will make your feet cold.

Make sure your feet are warm when you put them in your boots in the morning.

I have considered these - they would add some insulation, but it would be nice if they were waterproof.

X-Gaiters | Outdoor Research

Industry-revolutionizing insulated gaiter provides the protection of an 8000m boot without the cost or bulk

www.outdoorresearch.com

 

[Marbles]

but I have slept with my boots on my stomach, in a waterproof stuff sack, inside my sleeping bag.

The waterproof stuff sack is a good idea, I will have to remember that one.

 

[TheCougar]

So I’m learning a lot... I’m going to try some arctic shields. I looked at the Icebreakers, but they are huge and weight 2lbs or more - those won’t make the packing cut list. I also bet my boots were laced too tight. Plus an insulated insole sounds good, if I can find one with some arch support.

 

[2-Stix]

I putt baby powder in my socks. It helps keep my feet dry. I change stocks or air out my feet after a climb. I drop hand warmers in my boots at night with my socks over it. It warms up and dries out the boots.

 

[Wrench]

I'm as sensitive to cold feet as anyone. I spent several years working on the north slope of Alaska in temps to well under -20* for months on end. I found neos overboots to be my savior. I tried pacs, insulated boots, and everything in between. I found that I could hand on the steel for a shift in almost anything remotely warm in the neos.

For reference I wear a size 10.5 meindl and those boots fit perfectly in an XXL neo.

If you want to warm your boots, heat some rocks on the stove and set them in your boot. They have to be warm enough to be dry, and not so hot as to melt the liner.

I've also used rechargeable hand warmers that have to be boiled to recharge.....although I have not seen these available for a while.

When hot tenting I just keep boots under the stove and set a few rocks on the stove to dry.....then drop em in my boots.

 

[eaglemountainman]

OP, my experience is just as you described to a tee. This year, for the first time, I tried what others here have suggested on a similar thread. That being a generous spray of unscented antiperspirant, (I used Sure), and a pair of polypro liners between my feet and merino wool socks. You might have to experiment with the sock thickness. Thicker is not necessarily better. Same is true for boot insulation. It helped me tremendously. Managing perspiration was the key for me.

EDIT One point I forgot to mention, and should be obvious, but I'll state it anyway. No matter what system you decide to go with, make sure there is ample wiggle room for your toes.

 

[zion zig zag]

Someone already mentioned it (Marbles?) but keeping your core warm is the first step to keeping your feet and hands warm. If your core isn't warm enough your body shunts blood away from the extremities first.

I was recently on a goat hunt where temps were -15f to just around zero with 10 inches of snow on the ground and I hunted in uninsulated Kennetreks. I was mostly comfortable. The game was to not sweat while moving and then immediately put on everything I had as soon as I stopped, not waiting to get chilled. When I stopped to glass, I got my feet up off the snow onto my pack or my glassing pad.

 

[mtwarden]

camping/hunting in cold weather is very much like camping/skiing in the winter; few tips/tricks

frozen boots- insure you get a long size cold weather sleeping bag, in the bottom goes my boots (in a dry sack, I just use the one that my sleeping bag is in) as well as other stuff you don't want frozen solid- ie electronics, fuel canisters, certain food items, etc

socks are going to get wet, if it's a longer trip I'll carry three pairs- one pair is for sleep and remain 100% dry, the other two I switch off with- with the hope that one pair can be dried (but often can't); I've hiked in damp socks 1000's of miles- it's not pleasant, but won't hurt you

when stopped for any length of time (glassing/lunch/etc) I'll use a pair of 40 Below overshoes, I carry two "sit" pads- one for my butt, one for my feet, if glassing for a longer time (and it's cold) I break out my Apex quilt, it gets draped around me and my feet go into the footbox- this really helps

my boots for cold weather are Schnee's pac boots; much warmer imo than any insulated leather boot, mine are the tallest ones which negate the need for gaiters

they also make a double insulated boot, I had a pair but found them useful only for non-static use- ice fishing, hunting a blind, etc, but they were extremely warm

I've started warming fires when it's brutally cold and I need to glass for a long time, elk/deer don't seem to mind smoke as I'm guessing they smell it frequently throughout their lives

 

[Hoffman Boots]

Try the Mountain boot by Hoffman's . We use a 9mm felt liner in the boot which will retain heat much better than any thinsulate material. If warmth is what you are after, these are the best.

 

[peterk123]

Someone already mentioned it (Marbles?) but keeping your core warm is the first step to keeping your feet and hands warm. If your core isn't warm enough your body shunts blood away from the extremities first.

I was recently on a goat hunt where temps were -15f to just around zero with 10 inches of snow on the ground and I hunted in uninsulated Kennetreks. I was mostly comfortable. The game was to not sweat while moving and then immediately put on everything I had as soon as I stopped, not waiting to get chilled. When I stopped to glass, I got my feet up off the snow onto my pack or my glassing pad.

This right here. Your body will do everything it takes to keep your organs safe, including cutting off all bloodflow to your extremities. Arms and legs are expendable. Heat loss through your head is another big one. But if you can keep your core warm then you should be able reduce the amount of insulation at the ends of your body (feet and hands). I am a skinny guy but my hands and feet cook the minute I take a step. Managing moisture is my greatest challenge. It is kind of interesting. I really do not sweat, except for my hands and feet. I am currently running uninsulated Beartooths. I am just in the breaking in stage but I have been out with them in 7 degree temps. Ultra thin ski socks (smartwool) and a thick wool sock have worked wonderfully so far. I do the same with my hands when I ski. I layer. Cheap fleece gloves covered by a shell mitt. I can pull the mitt off to dry my hands on the chairlift ride.