Updated USFU Online Map

[josh13]

Does the new USFS online Maps have less trails on them compared to the old topo maps? Looking at some old topo maps for a wilderness in colorado and it has a lot more trails listed than the online system. I have reached out to the local RD to see if it was due to maintenance.

 

[EdP]

I see that a lot on a variety of maps from official sources, and is why I always keep my old maps. My belief is that they don't want anyone to know about the old "abandoned" trails so they won't use them. In some cases the old trails were abandoned or rerouted due to serious erosion issues and are better off not being used. In other cases I think it is just about control.

 

[Yoteassasin]

Man I miss walking in to the old map stores with chart drawers and every usgs quad you could ever want . This maps had details that were gold . Old Mine sites, abandoned roads and trails … now you order them online and they are scrubbed of most useful information

 

[Pony Soldier]

The early usgs series had the most accurate civil structures of the early years but were never finished. The 15 minute series were accurate and were field checked so you got roads, trails, cabins and topo but again were never finished.

The most recent 7.5 series were finished but left out most of the civil structures and weren't field checked. The topo was more accurate and complete but trails completely went away or were placed in wierd places. When the fs quit maintaining them in the 70s, they just ceased to exist over time at least in montana.

 

[RockAndSage]

There is intent behind fewer trails and especially old logging roads being displayed on modern maps - they do not want them to be used. They want them to disappear.

The reality of this has been bad enough that within some circles of wildland firefighters they actively look for old FS maps and keep them around, specifically to be able to identify potential fire-break lines to work with, that have been intentionally left off modern maps.

 

[josh13]

I see that a lot on a variety of maps from official sources, and is why I always keep my old maps. My belief is that they don't want anyone to know about the old "abandoned" trails so they won't use them. In some cases the old trails were abandoned or rerouted due to serious erosion issues and are better off not being used. In other cases I think it is just about control.

I was thinking that. This is why I like to look at the old topo maps. I have found a few trails on the topo maps that have saved me from miles of bushwhacking.

 

[josh13]

The early usgs series had the most accurate civil structures of the early years but were never finished. The 15 minute series were accurate and were field checked so you got roads, trails, cabins and topo but again were never finished.

The most recent 7.5 series were finished but left out most of the civil structures and weren't field checked. The topo was more accurate and complete but trails completely went away or were placed in wierd places. When the fs quit maintaining them in the 70s, they just ceased to exist over time at least in montana.

I noticed that less and less trails in Wilderness Areas are being maintained. I work as a seasonal for a few summers and our trail crews kept getting smaller. The only people at the end that was maintained trails were the outfitters.

 

[Pony Soldier]

The most recent fs map shows the road to my mining claim as the main road, with a number and everything. The fact is the road has been closed since the 50s and lacks 20 verticle ft of even being connected to the main road.

I'm reluctant to accept everything that is or isn't on the most current fs maps.

 

[COJoe]

I used old maps when I was in AK in '94 looking for grouse to hunt on old logging roads. Some were so overgrown back in the 90s. I used my old truck to open a few back up... I doubt any of those roads are on any new map.

I bought a map in 2000 of Colorado when I moved here that had many old jeep trails and such. I lost that map somehow and the newer versions don't have most of those roads now.

 

[AZ8]

My dad gave me this map when I was a HS freshman back in 1983. It has all my old hunting grounds and favorite units. I pull it out from time to time to find something not on the newer maps.

Well worn and used, it now stays protected in my file cabinet.

 

[RS_Non-Res]

I too keep old maps. I used to have about nine Canadian maps taped together on my bedroom wall with a 6 week canoe trip mapped out. I still have gazetteers for when gps maps on the phlatphone don't work.

One of the better things about our Federal Government is that they are often so incompetent that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. So, while the new maps exclude older unmaintained trails, double tracks, roads, caves, and springs, Historical USGS Topo maps can be downloaded here. (I know they are not exactly the same as FS or BLM Land use maps.)

@AZ8 I think this snapshot from the Cashion/Avondale AZ 15min topo (1946) below, which I just downloaded is on your FS map. It's over by the Phoenix International Raceway, which currently takes up the south half of Section 36 and the north half of Section 1.

 

[AZ8]

I too keep old maps. I used to have about nine Canadian maps taped together on my bedroom wall with a 6 week canoe trip mapped out. I still have gazetteers for when gps maps on the phlatphone don't work.

One of the better things about our Federal Government is that they are often so incompetent that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. So, while the new maps exclude older unmaintained trails, double tracks, roads, caves, and springs, Historical USGS Topo maps can be downloaded here. (I know they are not exactly the same as FS or BLM Land use maps.)

@AZ8 I think this snapshot from the Cashion/Avondale AZ 15min topo (1946) below, which I just downloaded is on your FS map. It's over by the Phoenix International Raceway, which currently takes up the south half of Section 36 and the north half of Section 1.

View attachment 912668

View attachment 912681

Not quite. That's too far south. My map is the country up on the Mogollon Rim. What was once the Sitgreaves NF, its now the Apache/Sitgreaves NF. Parts of the Coconino and Tonto NF overlap on this map, but this is for the A Bar S NF.

 

[Kheimann]

I too keep old maps. I used to have about nine Canadian maps taped together on my bedroom wall with a 6 week canoe trip mapped out. I still have gazetteers for when gps maps on the phlatphone don't work.

One of the better things about our Federal Government is that they are often so incompetent that the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. So, while the new maps exclude older unmaintained trails, double tracks, roads, caves, and springs, Historical USGS Topo maps can be downloaded here. (I know they are not exactly the same as FS or BLM Land use maps.)

@AZ8 I think this snapshot from the Cashion/Avondale AZ 15min topo (1946) below, which I just downloaded is on your FS map. It's over by the Phoenix International Raceway, which currently takes up the south half of Section 36 and the north half of Section 1.

View attachment 912668

View attachment 912681

This is gold, thanks for sharing

 

[Alpine4x4]

Its due to the MVUM movement. It used to be any road not specifically gated/closed on USFS land was open and that has changed. Roads not specifically listed on the MVUM are now considered closed, which includes a lot of the old logging roads. A lot of roads have been turned into non motorized only as well. Its a shame as some of those old washed out roads made for some good 4wheeling.

 

[BLJ]

This is gold, thanks for sharing

This. Thanks.