Unknown suppressors OG testing

[Q_Sertorius]

Very general question about suppressed rifles. I have no experience with centerfire suppressors.

Does everyone still wear hearing protection (plugs/muffs/both) during comps and range sessions?

For my use case it would a 16” 223 up to a 18” 308.

Is hearing protection still recommended for multiple shot sessions with these rifle/cartridge combos? Thanks.

At a public range, which I avoid like the plague these days, I would still wear dual hearing protection (muffs with plugs). There’s always one guy firing his AR unsuppressed at the next booth over.

When I am sighting in or practicing, I still use plugs even firing suppressed.

I posted above that OSHA says you should wear hearing protection if you are going to be exposed to 115 decibels for more than 15 minutes a day. The OSHA standard halves the time exposure for every five decibels. For reference, hearing safe for a single exposure is below 140 decibels. So, using something that gets you down to 130 decibels is theoretically good for about 90 seconds of sustained noise.

In short, for hearing safe, with a good suppressor, I personally would use hearing protection for any situation where I expect to fire more than two or three shots in 20-30 seconds. To me, the suppressor that lowers the risk to my hearing when I am hunting. That’s it.


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[HuntHarder]

I wear cheap foam plugs with suppressors. When hunting, I usually do not carry hearing protection if hunting with suppressors.

 

[Bluefish]

Very general question about suppressed rifles. I have no experience with centerfire suppressors.

Does everyone still wear hearing protection (plugs/muffs/both) during comps and range sessions?

For my use case it would a 16” 223 up to a 18” 308.

Is hearing protection still recommended for multiple shot sessions with these rifle/cartridge combos? Thanks.

Yes, hearing protection is still worn. While 140 db is considered hearing safe, that’s for a single shot. Even at 130 db, your “safe” daily exposure is only 10 shots. 120 db is 100 shots. You have to get down to 110 db to get a safe exposure of 1000 shots. Even at the “safe” level some people will still experience hearing loss.

This doesn’t even account for being at a range and someone doesn’t have a can. IMHO I think UM has it right, get the shooters ear level down into the low/mid 130’s then make it as small as possible. You are going to wear hearing protection anyway and a single protection will give you 15-30 db of protection which takes you to 105-120db at the ear canal. That gives you a “safe” exposure of 100-1000 shots per day at the range and 1-2 safe shots while hunting. If you are using an AR, they barely get under 140 even with a big can due to port noise. Thus, why not make it light and easy to handle as it won’t be more quiet even if it’s bigger.

 

[JGRaider]

I see some folks are saying Unknown needs to be more price-competitive, but in looking at OTB 30cal cans, the AB Raptor 8 is $950.00, the Griffin PSR is $1016.00, and the OG is $999.00. Seems like they are priced in the ballpark.

It will still cost manufacturers to build them, so even if they are removed from the NFA, I doubt that production costs will suddenly drop, and the price of every suppressor will decrease just because more folks might want one.

I fail to understand why people get hung up on the $200.00 tax stamp; yes, I dislike it, but my hearing protection is worth the money to me. The most significant pain point has been the wait times, but that is no longer an issue at this point. I just bought a can today, and my paperwork was approved 4 hours later. I can pick up my can tomorrow.

Then you can add in transfer fees as well.

 

[HuntHarder]

Then you can add in transfer fees as well.

It's just money! They keep printing it, I'm gonna keep spending it.

 

[mtnbound]

Then you can add in transfer fees as well.

The same fee applies if I order a rifle or pistol that's not a stock item.

 

[Kaleb]

Titanium suppressors are expensive. The tax is expensive and people are reporting $20-$150 for the transfer. I don’t know what mine is going to charge because I didnt ask. If it’s unreasonable then I won’t use him again.

I just don’t understand why it’s turned into such a debate about a new company offering up a product? The OG and Raptor 8 seem to be more alike than different. The 8 is a little bit quieter and the OG is a little bit smaller. The 8 is a little bit less expensive and the OG is available.

I’m curious enough about the raptor 8 that when they are available at the same time I have the extra money I’ll get one. By the reports shared here by others I’m confident that I will not regret the OG or a 8 in the future.

 

[Jbehredt]

Titanium suppressors are expensive. The tax is expensive and people are reporting $20-$150 for the transfer. I don’t know what mine is going to charge because I didnt ask. If it’s unreasonable then I won’t use him again.

I just don’t understand why it’s turned into such a debate about a new company offering up a product? The OG and Raptor 8 seem to be more alike than different. The 8 is a little bit quieter and the OG is a little bit smaller. The 8 is a little bit less expensive and the OG is available.

I’m curious enough about the raptor 8 that when they are available at the same time I have the extra money I’ll get one. By the reports shared here by others I’m confident that I will not regret the OG or a 8 in the future.

It’s mostly the form fans vs the form haters. If the OG makes it on SS I’ll grab one for the stubby wife’s stubby savage. I’m all about convenience.

 

[RockAndSage]

It’s mostly the form fans vs the form haters. If the OG makes it on SS I’ll grab one for the stubby wife’s stubby savage. I’m all about convenience.

And people trying to show how smart they are with pedantic questions, along with a few unreasonable demands and expectations of good dudes who are just sharing good info on their own dime. It's some pretty uncool $h*t to throw at them.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Anyone who thinks the questions here are about liking or disliking Form needs to go look at the material actually published on US’s website. If you aren’t a regular around here or missed a podcast episode, you wouldn’t know a lot of the information about the OG.

When people come asking questions, that’s not a reason to get defensive. You simply point them directly to the published information. And if you cannot do that, then you need to publish the information.


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[mtnbound]

The cans are expensive because they are controlled items that are currently buy it for life. Yes, if everyone can suddenly buy one, that will increase demand, but it will also create a second hand market.

Additionally, the $200 stamp artificially inflates the price making low end suppressors seem less desirable. If you have to buy a $200 stamp, that actually makes the $1000 suppressor seem like you are getting more for your money.

In countries where these aren’t controlled items, suppressors are a lot cheaper.

Finally, because the customer is basically stuck with it once it is purchased, the seller has more leverage. Knowledge of which ones are best is currently limited and to some extent controlled. If one of these is well-marketed but ultimately disappointing, there are a ton of people currently stuck with it.

A market with less restrictions will be more competitive.


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"The cans are expensive because they are controlled items that are currently buy it for life. Yes, if everyone can suddenly buy one, that will increase demand, but it will also create a second-hand market."

Can you explain how the price will drop if they become uncontrolled?
A second-hand market would be nice, but the prices I see for used firearms are not much of a savings, and I'm not sure if I want to buy a used suppressor, because if someone else didn't like it I don't think I would be any different so a second-hand market could be just the crap ones.

"Additionally, the $200 stamp artificially inflates the price making low end suppressors seem less desirable. If you have to buy a $200 stamp, that actually makes the $1000 suppressor seem like you are getting more for your money."

If there is a $200 difference from a low-end can to a high-end can, I'll save up another $200 bucks and buy the higher-end can.

"In countries where these aren’t controlled items, suppressors are a lot cheaper."

Yes, you can find cheaper cans, but you can also find cans that are similar in price to the US market. Cheaper cans are likely made with cheaper materials and maybe a cheaper workforce.

"Finally, because the customer is basically stuck with it once it is purchased, the seller has more leverage. Knowledge of which ones are best is currently limited and to some extent controlled. "

You do need to do your homework when buying anything, and cans are no different. If a manufacturer does not provide details about their product, I wouldn't buy it.

" If one of these is well-marketed but ultimately disappointing, there are a ton of people currently stuck with it."

This supports my earlier comment about a second-hand market for cans.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

"The cans are expensive because they are controlled items that are currently buy it for life. Yes, if everyone can suddenly buy one, that will increase demand, but it will also create a second-hand market."

Can you explain how the price will drop if they become uncontrolled?
A second-hand market would be nice, but the prices I see for used firearms are not much of a savings, and I'm not sure if I want to buy a used suppressor, because if someone else didn't like it I don't think I would be any different so a second-hand market could be just the crap ones.

"Additionally, the $200 stamp artificially inflates the price making low end suppressors seem less desirable. If you have to buy a $200 stamp, that actually makes the $1000 suppressor seem like you are getting more for your money."

If there is a $200 difference from a low-end can to a high-end can, I'll save up another $200 bucks and buy the higher-end can.

"In countries where these aren’t controlled items, suppressors are a lot cheaper."

Yes, you can find cheaper cans, but you can also find cans that are similar in price to the US market. Cheaper cans are likely made with cheaper materials and maybe a cheaper workforce.

"Finally, because the customer is basically stuck with it once it is purchased, the seller has more leverage. Knowledge of which ones are best is currently limited and to some extent controlled. "

You do need to do your homework when buying anything, and cans are no different. If a manufacturer does not provide details about their product, I wouldn't buy it.

" If one of these is well-marketed but ultimately disappointing, there are a ton of people currently stuck with it."

This supports my earlier comment about a second-hand market for cans.

If you don’t understand how barriers to entry inhibit competition and inflate prices for consumers, I don’t know what to tell you.

Hearing safe suppressors don’t have to cost $1000. Yes, a titanium hunting can might still be $1000. But I fully expect a lot more cheap suppressors on the market if they become less regulated. And the instant someone wants to take some market share, they can offer a similar product at $950. Over time, many current producers will go out of business to more efficient places. And new ones will enter the market.

I am just guessing, but I imagine that many of these places are making a healthy profit on the cans they currently sell. People expecting to wait months or years for a suppressor don’t mind waiting a month or two for some small shop to sell them. These are niche items right now. The shops aren’t really efficient. Increased sales volume will drive efficiency.

Aluminum and steel suppressors are very common in other countries. That’s a lot easier for anyone to manufacture, a lot cheaper, and I fully expect to see not only DIY types, but lots of small places making them. The technology to make a hearing safe can just isn’t that complicated. A kid could do it in shop class, if it wasn’t illegal. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to see steel cans, perfectly suitable for the range, in the $300 range.

In a few years after deregulation, buying a suppressor will be like buying a spare magazine or a new stock or an optic or any other rifle part. Those worth a premium will still be expensive, but only as long as they are worth a premium. And the better cans will tend to be slightly cheaper than they are now.


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[fwafwow]

"The cans are expensive because they are controlled items that are currently buy it for life. Yes, if everyone can suddenly buy one, that will increase demand, but it will also create a second-hand market."

Can you explain how the price will drop if they become uncontrolled?
A second-hand market would be nice, but the prices I see for used firearms are not much of a savings, and I'm not sure if I want to buy a used suppressor, because if someone else didn't like it I don't think I would be any different so a second-hand market could be just the crap ones.

"Additionally, the $200 stamp artificially inflates the price making low end suppressors seem less desirable. If you have to buy a $200 stamp, that actually makes the $1000 suppressor seem like you are getting more for your money."

If there is a $200 difference from a low-end can to a high-end can, I'll save up another $200 bucks and buy the higher-end can.

"In countries where these aren’t controlled items, suppressors are a lot cheaper."

Yes, you can find cheaper cans, but you can also find cans that are similar in price to the US market. Cheaper cans are likely made with cheaper materials and maybe a cheaper workforce.

"Finally, because the customer is basically stuck with it once it is purchased, the seller has more leverage. Knowledge of which ones are best is currently limited and to some extent controlled. "

You do need to do your homework when buying anything, and cans are no different. If a manufacturer does not provide details about their product, I wouldn't buy it.

" If one of these is well-marketed but ultimately disappointing, there are a ton of people currently stuck with it."

This supports my earlier comment about a second-hand market for cans.

I don't want to get into an argument, but fwiw, if there was an ability to sell one of my cans, I might consider doing so in order to get the OG or another. Sure, you may not want to buy a used can. But others might - depending on the seller's feedback, the can in question and whether any warranty may follow the can. To me it's less risky than buying a used scope. YMMV.

As for the $200 stamp, I think what he was trying to say is that the $200 stamp becomes less of a % impact at the higher end. A $300 can plus $200 stamp is a big jump on a relative basis, but not as much on a $1k can. Yes, it's still $200.

I tend to agree that comparing the prices overseas is perhaps apples-to-oranges. There are plenty of things that sell for more outside the US, even when those items are not controlled. I'm also guessing there is a far larger market in the US for anything firearm related, probably more so that in all of Europe.

 

[HairyScandinavian]

Very general question about suppressed rifles. I have no experience with centerfire suppressors.

Does everyone still wear hearing protection (plugs/muffs/both) during comps and range sessions?

For my use case it would a 16” 223 up to a 18” 308.

Is hearing protection still recommended for multiple shot sessions with these rifle/cartridge combos? Thanks.

I've "downgraded" to just electronic in-ear for range trips. Makes for a lighter range bag and more comfortable overall.

 

[Reburn]

I wonder if they are removed from the NFA that cans could be imported like firearms.

 

[sneaky]

Damn you. I noticed that the Scythe had more of a crack to it but now i'm probably going to start hearing other things.

Try not to ting about it (I'll see myself out)

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[fwafwow]

I wonder if they are removed from the NFA that cans could be imported like firearms.

Wow. Great question. I will keep an ear out.

Not to be a downer, but articles I've been reading in the "regular" (non-hunting/non-2A) press do not sound promising for the overall bill, at least in the current form.

 

[JGRaider]

The same fee applies if I order a rifle or pistol that's not a stock item.

I was specifically referring to cans bought through silencer shop to local dealer. No transfer fees in that case.

 

[112Savage]

I always wear ear protection when at the range. I will occasionally take it out when others are shooting different cans to hear the cans from a distance of at least a few yards.

I see one problem with removing suppressors from NFA. Since cans will be more attainable, more “makers” will get into the market to get a piece of the new demand. I foresee some of those makers not being as diligent with testing or materials and possibly creating sub-par cans that could be dangerous. Currently since cans are “lifetime purchases” buyers and makers are expecting and expected to make extremely durable and effective cans

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I always wear ear protection when at the range. I will occasionally take it out when others are shooting different cans to hear the cans from a distance of at least a few yards.

I see one problem with removing suppressors from NFA. Since cans will be more attainable, more “makers” will get into the market to get a piece of the new demand. I foresee some of those makers not being as diligent with testing or materials and possibly creating sub-par cans that could be dangerous. Currently since cans are “lifetime purchases” buyers and makers are expecting and expected to make extremely durable and effective cans

This is why there are products liability laws. When is the last time you heard of a properly used rifle exploding?

If anything, making them less restricted will make them safer due to increased competition. It’s not like the NFA is setting standards for them.


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